I reckon this whole thing stems from the fact that some people actually think that embarrassing a teenage girl is worse than calling someone a racial slur.

All of the pundits defending the booing keep bringing this up as though what Goodes did to call her out was sooo horrible. FFS.

Imagine for a second, if there was a white 13 year old girl in the US who called a black basketballer in the NBA a "n*gger." It would be a huge deal.

Fucking hell this is really getting blown out of proportion now.

-PB

Adam goodes on indefinite leave

Hope the racists -ahem people for booing for legitimate reasons for 16 straight weeksafter doing an aboriginal dance calling out a racist slur and speaking up on aboriginal issues - are happy

thats the great thing about being in a dominant culture. You get to decide when a marginalized culture is experiencing real racism or blowing things out of proportion or acting like a victim

Does this make hawthorn supporters some sort of hipsters for booing goodes before it was cool?

As for the mother of the 13 year coming out, that just feeds the media on their "everyone is a racist bully" line. What an idiot. I can't entirely agree with how goodes did it but it was still warranted.

Yup, that's the one I'm talking about. Wear a shirt with that prominently on the front and conduct a poll of 1000 strangers in the CBD of your city asking what they think your shirt is in support of.

Can guarantee the majority will say they think you're a nazi sympathiser, if they'll even talk to you. History of a word, symbol or action means nothing as soon as it has been appropriated by bad people or associated with tragic/terrible acts.

You're not a Hindi in Asia, you don't get to wear a svastika and claim it isn't racist. You're not attending pre-ape taunt, pre-war dance Sydney matches, you don't get to boo Goodes when there are a significant (let's be generous and say) minority who are doing so for racist reasons and claim you aren't racist. You are part of the braying mob that represents the hate of a black man.

See my post above, analogies are literary tools designed to help people understand issues by using examples they are familiar with. Surely if you take a breath and calm the heck down the example of the swastika with its history and later appropriation can give you some insight as to why the appropriation of booing Goodes by an ignorant and racist group makes booing Goodes for other reasons impossible to validate.


They are not being called racist for historically booing Goodes, they are being told that continuing to boo him now that there is a racial undertone to the hate towards him can only be construed as racist. There is no way to boo in a way that looks or sounds different to a racist boo. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp, but is clearly beyond some football supporters.


You mean they embraced their culture in a way that white Australia said was OK? Really, this just says more about the regression of white Australia than it does about Goodes, Winmar or Long. If Winmar had never performed that iconic moment and Goodes had instead done it in place of the war dance there would still be a vocal group claiming he was inciting racial tension and we'd be in the same spot.


"The mass booing didn't start after the schoolgirl incident, it started after a protracted amount of time from that incident in which the incident was constantly dredged up and referenced and people claimed his calling out racism was not OK because the racist was a child"

So basically it started at the schoolgirl incident (but totally didn't, I swear! believe me!) and he had the audacity to get older and less of a superstar so it's ok to conveniently deflect hatred towards him for that? People hate Goodes. Some of those people hate Goodes for being a proud Aboriginal as well (or entirely because of.) Some of those people hate Goodes for challenging white power structures. These people boo Goodes. Joining them validates their opinions and reinforces their message. It really isn't impinging on your civil liberties that much not to do this, and shit it might even make you a half decent person.

http://www.theshovel.com.au/2015/07/30/well-decide-when-were-being-racist-white-people-tell-black-people/
The shovel nails it

This whole situation is messed up. Adam Goodes should be able to celebrate his culture. Doing a war dance is fine, however, he is going to get booed for it. Heck he just kicked a goal and celebrated in front of the Carlton fans. Professional athletes get booed all the time.

If Emmanuel Adebayor scores a goal in front of the Arsenal fans are they going to boo him? Absolutely. Is it because he's black? No. It's because he's a dick and he just scored against them.

Now that it started people are getting on board to put him off his game and it's working. Are some of them racists? Probably. But to assume we have a cultural problem and to assume he exclusively gets booed because he's a vocal "invasion day" advocate is a hell of a long bow to draw.

Is the current booing over the top? It's merciless and I feel sorry for him however he has to take this on the chin and play the game. Walking away makes him look like a sook who can't cop back what he dishes out.

I'm terribly sick of the racism aspect of it. I 100% think that an element of it is racist. But the proportion that this has been blown to is just silly and needs to stop.

:lol: Don't worry we have the PC Nazis to paraphrase everything Anglo-Saxon into a racist slur because fuck we're all guilty of being white these days :lol:

Cheers, I'd rather be odd than part of the majority at the moment.


Yeah, you really should work on your logic theory.

Work on the following:

1) Power structures. Reclaim Australia are a majority targeting a minority (immigrants), Anti-booers are targeting a majority (white Australians) who are targeting a minority (an indigenous Australian). It's very, very difficult to be the victim when you're the one in power.

2) Passive and Active Actors. Muslims are passive actors, being a Muslim doesn't do anything to external parties. A person booing is an active actor, it explicitly affects an external party. If Muslims and terrorists were all doing the same thing, as booing-because-I-think-he's-a-dirty-player spectators and booing-because-fuck-this-aboriginal-guy-having-agency spectators are (ie: booing) then you'd almost have the embryo of an argument.

So no, there's no contradiction (though yes, it is a fucking massive generalisation. On par with "frogs and ferrets are basically the same animal".)

Edited by Scoll: 30/7/2015 01:31:38 PM

Unless you want to segregate supporters into racial categories and only have the Asians boo the Asians, the white boo the whites and so forth this whole thing is complete crap.

Just because you don't agree with the people booing you doesn't mean they are racist.

But it's probably safe to agree to disagree with you, your hero cape is probably tied too tight and its cut the circulation off to your brain hence why you can't stand people with a difference of opinion.

+1.

I speak as somebody who follows the NRL, where attitudes towards race have been quite different. Rugby League was the first code to have an Aboriginal captain the national team (Lionel Morgan) and throughout it's 100 year history, has had plenty of Aboriginal, Islander and Middle Eastern (to name but a few) playing the game and succeeding at the highest level. Right now, the coaches of our State of Origin teams are Aboriginal and Irish-Aboriginal respectively. So seeing this take place in a code that supposedly has a superior culture to Rugby League, is somewhat bizarre. But as I see it?

No doubt there's a stark minority, racist element who are booing Goodes. Those people have no place in the game. The rest are booing because they (rightly) are taking offence to being told that they are not allowed to voice their disapproval of one certain player and that said player should be given preferential treatment because of his heritage. Having sections of the media and the inner city elites tell them "If you voice your disapproval of this player in any form then you are a RAAAAACIIIIIST!!!" only fuels the fire.

Of course, Goodes' comments about being "ashamed to be Australian" and "Invasion Day" are music to the ears of the self-loathing, perpetually outraged PC brigade, so they will support him enthusiastically. The 13 year old girl who started this whole issue made a dumb comment, no doubt, but really we should have stopped and realised the fact that a 13 year old girl does not possess the same level of judgement as an adult. She should have been given a warning about her conduct, but at the same time Goodes should have thought about the implications on that girl before labelling her "the face of racism". I'm not judging Goodes for his heritage, but as an adult who should have the experience and maturity to think before levelling such a damning comment at somebody who doesn't have the profile to defend themselves or their actions that Goodes has. The girl was ejected from the game and (correct me if I'm wrong?) she was fined as well. It should have ended there, with a warning about the consequences if she repeated her conduct. But for Goodes to then come out and slam a 13 year old girl as "The face of racism"- this was viewed as not only kicking somebody who was already down, but somebody who didn't have the media platform or public sympathy to stand up for themselves. I know that Goodes added that it "wasn't her fault"- but so what? By that logic I should be able to go up to a homeless Aboriginal on the street and say "You're the face of everything that is wrong with Aboriginals- but it's not your fault"? This is what put a lot of people offside with Goodes. Again, they were not judging Goodes based on his skin colour or where his parents came from. They were judging Goodes as an adult- an adult who makes great money and has a high media profile for playing a game he loves. The same way that the hundreds of other footballers in the AFL are judged, irrespective of their heritage. Isn't that what equality is really about?

The majority of Australians won't stand for being told who they can and can't criticise. Telling people "You're not allowed to boo Adam Goodes otherwise you are RACIST!" flies in the face (ironically) of the egalitarian society that has made Australia such an attractive proposition for the immigrants that have settled here over the past 100 years. Applying a different set of rules and standards to people, based entirely on their ethnicity, is divisive and goes against everything that has made this country as multicultural as it is. You start telling people who they can and can't criticise, and while on the surface it might appear like some kind of happy Benetton ad, all it does is fuel seething discontent, mistrust and division below the surface. This ends up with far uglier consequences than somebody being called an ape at the football...



Edited by Captain Haddock: 30/7/2015 03:32:25 PM

I'm pretty sure she didn't. In fact in the aftermath he made it clear that she needed support and didn't want to press charges.


The aboriginal people would suggest this society is far from egalitarian, I guess that's why people get so worked up when they're challenged on it...

Out of curiosity, what rights as of 2015 do aboriginals not have that us devil anglo's have?

I recognise that aboriginals have a horrific history of abuse from early Australians and as late as the 60's where they were treated as second class citizens. However the hatred is now being passed on to young Australian's who have no idea why they're hated so badly. They didn't do anything. Their only crime is being born white in land 'stolen' hundreds of years ago. Is it any surprise that the hate is going both ways? Are we just meant to roll over and cop being called murders and imperialists? Fuck that right off.

People get worked up because they're pretty much prevented from being critical of minorities because the PC crowd come in and throw around the race card. Yet turn the tables and it's open season. You can use the power nonsense all you like but the stark reality is that these days critical opinions are not to be publicly voiced.

People seem quick to dismiss the fact that the 13 year old girl is the face of racism in this country. She racially attacked a person using learned behaviour and attitudes that form the fabric of our society. The face of racism in Australia isn't the KKK, it's Joe Blow walking down the street thinking to himself "Aboriginals are lazy parasites."

Calling her the face of racism in the country doesn't mean that she is the entire racist element of Australia, being the face means she represents what the average racist looks like- all of us. Our parents, our brothers and sisters, our children. People are quick to defend the poor little racist privileged white girl from the big bad man who had the audacity to live in a skin colour that receives constant belittlement from childhood throughout their entire life.

People tell Goodes to "man up" and cop the abuse, but no-one can explain why it is so much more difficult to just stop fucking abusing him. How about the supporters "man up" and find another way to make themselves feel less inadequate? When did the right to offend trump the right to not be offended? Sure, feel free to continue to boo him; I'll feel free to join the chorus of people calling you a racist shitheel. If you feel slighted by that, man up.

And if being told that performing the same abusive actions as racists do supports racism infuriates you, maybe you lack the mental acuity to actually take part in this discussion.

Holy shit!!! =d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d>

I'm not an expert in aboriginal affairs but legally at least they're still not recognised in our constitution as the original inhabitants of this land. That absolutely needs to change.

There's a difference between legal discrimination and society's attitude towards indigenous people causing discrimination. What reason do you think is the cause of them being on the bottom rung in every facet of society if they're not treated as second class citizens by people? It can't be because they're lesser humans. Why can't they raise issue with this fact? I don't think most aboriginal people blame people today for the issues of the past, though you can see people celebrating a moment that caused great damage to their culture would be offensive? You can say it's not about that but it's observed on 26th January for a reason...

But Scoll there's no discrimination because Aboriginals can do anything a white person can! Clearly we're an egalitarian society and it's what you know not who you know that gets you to the top ;)

It needs to change for sure. However it needs to be changed to protect everyone's interests. As a kiwi we had massive issues when the treaty of Waitangi caused land grabs by the local Maori. It literally made non-issues into racial issues. Seems to have died down now thankfully.

What I feel about societal issues is that you reap what you sow. Attitudes develop from experience. Poor experiences lead to poor attitudes. I'm not saying aboriginals are at fault but the whole 'abo's are lazy drunks who sponge off the government' is pretty much ingrained in our society. It's a difficult thing to change. No government has successfully raised the standard of living or 'closed the gap'. I have no idea how we even do it. I think quotas are the wrong to approach the situation. It suggests that they are not equal and are employed/selected because they have to be. I don't know. I think discrimination stems from us devil whities expecting them to adopt our way of life and discrimination is born from the negative affect our way of life has had on their culture.

As for the 26th. If we are serious about reconciliation we need to meet in the middle. No more invasion day and what not. But perhaps we can rename the day to be more sensitive and more representative? I fully understand why they would be upset about it.

It seems as though the Adam Goodes saga has brought up indigenous history to a point where it's more political than sporting. He's outspoken and he attacks white Australia at every opportunity. I have no problem with what he says as long as he doesn't pretend he is looking to improve indigenous welfare. Using 'Murderers" and "Invasion Day" in public speeches instantly puts off like 80% of people.

You can't drag our whole society into an issue like this. It's a long bow to draw. That's like saying the terrorist attack in Sydney is the face if Islam in this country. It's not, it's one person/a small percentage of people. It's like saying extremism forms the fabric of Islam. It's an unfair stereotype. While what you say holds true for a lot of people, a lot are coming away from that kind of viewpoint.



She deserves no protection. Her mother has been demanding an apology from Goodes. What horse shit. Goodes and Indigenous Australia deserve an apology from the parents for raising a racist child. Goodes did absolutely nothing wrong for pointing that girl out in the crowd. I applaud him for doing it. I would hope that it is a lead for all aboriginal players to follow.



So by booing Luke Hodge because he's a dirty player, I am performing a racist action?

Lol at the mother demanding an apology. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.

Nope, not accurate at all. Comparing an extreme action (terrorism, in case you're confused) with constant continued behaviour by a homogeneous group of people (white Australia) doesn't fly. You are dull as dishwater if you think that this girl being representative of racism in Australia is people saying literally all white Australians are racist. She is representitive of what racism looks like, that is not the same thing as saying racism is what white Australia looks like (though, that's a separate matter entirely and I'm inclined to suggest that we are on the weight of it.)


Don't be ridiculous. No-one is booing Hodge because of his skin colour*, there is no racist action to implicitly support. This really isn't a hard concept. It's not about booing, it's about booing a victim of racist behaviour.

Goodes is being singled out because he is the only one making a strong stand and that scares conservative white people. They've made him a special case with their response all by themselves, they don't get to complain about it (let alone use it as an excuse to validate their behaviour.)

Boo someone -> that's fine!
Boo someone -> booing takes on a racial narrative -> continue booing -> That's dumb and you're dumb. Stop being dumb.

*There's also a whole separate discussion embedded in this scenario, but if people can't understand the Goodes drama I'll be damned if I'm going to raise it.

Johnathon Thurston will come out in support of Goodes on the field this weekend, with other NRL players likely to follow. Of course the reaction of many is along the lines of 'these pesky aborigines are starting to get out of control everywhere'.

A good article from Bob Murphy today. But everyone knows he's just playing the race card as well.

People boo Goodes because he's a whiny sook who blows up about nothing (not talking about the 13 year old girl incident here). He belittles and attacks white Australians for something they were not involved in, called Australia day "invasion day" on his AOTY speech, deliberately provokes the crowd is a dirty player. People boo him because he's a self-righteous prick when he plays the victim/race card.

Edited by 433: 30/7/2015 05:32:27 PM

This is Adam Goodes's Aus day speech. He didn't call it "invasion day". Thats been a total rubbish beat up.

“It’s an honour to win an award for doing stuff that you love and that you believe in. For me, I chose that life is all about actions and interactions. I believe that our choices and how we interact with each other creates our relationships and this in turn creates the environment that we live in.
Our environment shapes our communities which then shapes the country that we all live in. Growing up as an indigenous Australian I have experienced my fair share of racism. While it has been difficult a lot of the time, it has also taught me a lot and also shaped my values and what I believe in today. I believe racism is a community issue which we all need to address and that’s why racism stops with me.
There are always two ways we can look at a situation. We can choose to get angry. Or not. We can choose to help others. Or not. Or choose to be offended. Or not. We can keep our silence or educate ourselves and others about racism and minority populations.
It is not just about taking responsibility for your own actions but speaking to your mates when they take out their anger on their loved ones, minority groups or make racist remarks. It means treating people the way you want to be treated, whether that’s your manners, the way you talk to people, whether they are your loved ones or the person serving your dinner. It’s about how you choose to give back and make a difference to those around you, your community or your country that goes outside of just yourself.
I believe we are all connected whether we like it or not. We are all equal and the same in so many ways. My hope is that we as a nation can break down the silos between races, break down those stereotypes of minority populations, indigenous populations and all other minority groups. I hope we can be proud of our heritage regardless of the colour of our skin and be proud to be Australian.
I’m not here to tell you what to think, or how to act to raise your children. All I’m here to do is tell you about my experiences and hope you choose to be aware of your actions and interactions so that together we can eliminate racism.
I’m so grateful for this award and this honour, however the real reward is when everyone is talking to their mates, to their families and their children, having those conversations and educating others about racism. What it looks like, how hurtful and how pointless it is and how we can eliminate it.
The ultimate reward is when all Australians see each other as equals and treat each other as equals. To me, everything is about people and the choices we make. I believe it’s the people and the interactions between us that makes this country so special. Thank you so much and have a great Australia Day.”

have you actually read or heard his oz day speech in full? He never said australia day was invasion day and left in that. Look at the transcript before calling him out on ut

this. Sadly andrew bolt and devine have concocted the invasion day thing and have ran with it so alot of people have been taken there word for it.

those reasons would literally make it a racial issue :lol:

Why is Adam Goodes the one playing the race card when the other players, black or white, have said they feel it's racial. It would be pretty amazing if they were all wrong.

Exactly. I agree that booing Goodes every time he touches the ball is a bit excessive, but the other part of me understands why so many people would boo him just out of principle of knowing it pisses all the self-righteous, shrill PC fuck-wits off.