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aussie scott21
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A-League salary cap punishes success, writes Mark Bosnich IF the traffic’s not bad, it’s only a short drive from Olympic Park to Parramatta — just 11km separating the Wanderers’ temporary home from their original one while it’s rebuilt. But on the day of the second derby of the season, it must feel like the club has moved light years away — not just from its home of the past four seasons but also the success that was built there. It’s a situation made even more painful by watching their opponents on Saturday, Sydney FC, conquer all before them to be so far ahead at the top of the league. Just a few months ago at the end of last season it was Western Sydney chasing the glory, and theirs is a case that makes me more certain than ever that we need a radical overhaul of the A-League. A-League salary cap punishes success, writes Mark Bosnich. In short, it’s time for the salary cap to go, and for free-market economics to hold away in Australia’s football competition. Let me explain why it is that the Wanderers are sitting outside the top six, and why scrapping the cap would stop them and others like Adelaide from being penalised for being strong. It’s very simple. Eighteen months ago Tony Popovic ripped up his squad and started again, just as he seems to do every year. But in that case he brought in players who he needed to play a new brand of football, and they were highly successful in that enterprise. But the problems for teams that do well here come months down the line, when successful players in successful teams seek rewards for their achievements. Popovic made offers to the stylish Spanish duo Alberto and Andreu at the end of last season that were limited by how much space he had in the cap. Both players elected to leave in search of better deals elsewhere. Then cashed up Asian leagues came calling for some of the club’s best servants in Mark Bridge and Nikolai Topor-Stanley, offering them deals far in excess of what they can earn here. Another two bricks were ripped from the citadel. The same thing happened to Adelaide United, where the hangovers from the Grand Final party had barely abated in May before suitors came calling for their best players. Other A-League teams cherrypicked some, while European and Asian clubs stole others — all of them able to pay the market rate. Wanderers coach Tony Popovic applauds his team from the sidelines. In essence, we’re penalising success. Teams in the A-League don’t even get prize money, and then — to add insult to injury — the competition’s rules make it nigh-on impossible to keep their squads together when they do well. It’s true we have a new TV deal, thanks to Fox Sports, with $350m to be invested over the next six years and more (hopefully) to come from a free to air station. But while some of that will feed into the cap, clubs have already made clear they want a large proportion for themselves to pay for their day to day business. Only Australia and America have a salary cap, and it’s not appropriate here any more. The argument was always that it creates a level playing field and prevents the rich clubs dominating. Well guess what — we already have an equalisation device by virtue of the fact that six of our ten teams get into the finals. What the cap does is penalise success on so many levels, especially when coupled with the ban on transfer fees between A-League clubs. In their rush to make sure ours was a balanced competition, its architects have ended up stifling innovation. The Wanderers need to reboot their campaign on Saturday night. REBOOT NEEDED While it’s true that the salary cap is a major reason for where Western Sydney are, the brutal truth is that football demands success — especially at a club like the Wanderers that has become accustomed to winning ways. From the beginning I’ve been a great champion of Paul Lederer, a brilliant chairman and passionately engaged with his club. He’s a demanding owner, as he should be. But I’m from western Sydney, and there are rumblings among the supporters — about the temporary new home, the results, the coaching staff. In the end it’s the coach who carries responsibility for the results, whatever the circumstances. That’s why Western Sydney, and Tony Popovic, really need a win in the derby on Saturday. With half the season to go, there’ll be no better opportunity to reboot their campaign. Originally published as Bosnich: Salary cap punishes success http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/football/a-league/teams/western-sydney/aleague-salary-cap-punishes-success-writes-mark-bosnich/news-story/70269ec0c31679b74291c3cde9034b88
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aussie scott21
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He gets it
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mcjules
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Bozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back.
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melbourne_terrace
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+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games and constantly talk about them on social media whilst media eyes are constantly fixed on these clubs. They are the ones that TV actually want to show, they are the only ones that aren't too cheap to embrace the Champions League properly and they drive the majority of interest in the competition. To restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense.
Viennese Vuck
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HortoMagiko
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+x+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games, they talk about them on social media and they dominant media interest. They are the ones that drive the majority of interest in the competition and to restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense. This. It doesnt get more "this" than this.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mcjules
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+x+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games and constantly talk about them on social media whilst media eyes are constantly fixed on these clubs. They are the ones that TV actually want to show, they are the only ones that aren't too cheap to embrace the Champions League properly and they drive the majority of interest in the competition. To restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense. If the big cities were all that mattered, then the NSWPL and VPL would have been huge and there'd have been no need to have a national comp. Here comes the cavalry
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melbourne_terrace
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+x+x+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games and constantly talk about them on social media whilst media eyes are constantly fixed on these clubs. They are the ones that TV actually want to show, they are the only ones that aren't too cheap to embrace the Champions League properly and they drive the majority of interest in the competition. To restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense. If the big cities were all that mattered, then the NSWPL and VPL would have been huge and there'd have been no need to have a national comp. Here comes the cavalry  They serve a purpose by making up numbers in the league.
Viennese Vuck
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mcjules
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+x+x+x+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games and constantly talk about them on social media whilst media eyes are constantly fixed on these clubs. They are the ones that TV actually want to show, they are the only ones that aren't too cheap to embrace the Champions League properly and they drive the majority of interest in the competition. To restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense. If the big cities were all that mattered, then the NSWPL and VPL would have been huge and there'd have been no need to have a national comp. Here comes the cavalry  They serve a purpose by making up numbers in the league. I would argue that they're more important than that but you acknowledge they actually do matter at least. Progress :laugh:
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TheSelectFew
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+x+x+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games and constantly talk about them on social media whilst media eyes are constantly fixed on these clubs. They are the ones that TV actually want to show, they are the only ones that aren't too cheap to embrace the Champions League properly and they drive the majority of interest in the competition. To restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense. If the big cities were all that mattered, then the NSWPL and VPL would have been huge and there'd have been no need to have a national comp. Here comes the cavalry  Bless your bleeding heart. Makes me cry like a bitch. Bozza on point yet again. None of your points are relevant.
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HortoMagiko
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+x+x+x+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games and constantly talk about them on social media whilst media eyes are constantly fixed on these clubs. They are the ones that TV actually want to show, they are the only ones that aren't too cheap to embrace the Champions League properly and they drive the majority of interest in the competition. To restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense. If the big cities were all that mattered, then the NSWPL and VPL would have been huge and there'd have been no need to have a national comp. Here comes the cavalry  Bless your bleeding heart. Makes me cry like a bitch. Bozza on point yet again. None of your points are relevant. Lovin bozza lately! Tellin it like it is!
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sub007
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+x+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games and constantly talk about them on social media whilst media eyes are constantly fixed on these clubs. They are the ones that TV actually want to show, they are the only ones that aren't too cheap to embrace the Champions League properly and they drive the majority of interest in the competition. To restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense. what an arrogant statement. All teams matter not just the Melbourne and Sydney teams
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aufc_ole
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+x+x+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games and constantly talk about them on social media whilst media eyes are constantly fixed on these clubs. They are the ones that TV actually want to show, they are the only ones that aren't too cheap to embrace the Champions League properly and they drive the majority of interest in the competition. To restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense. what an arrogant statement. All teams matter not just the Melbourne and Sydney teams They matter but not as much as the big teams. Otherwise FTA stations would be killing themselves just so they can show Central Coast vs Newcastle
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melbourne_terrace
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+x+x+x+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games and constantly talk about them on social media whilst media eyes are constantly fixed on these clubs. They are the ones that TV actually want to show, they are the only ones that aren't too cheap to embrace the Champions League properly and they drive the majority of interest in the competition. To restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense. what an arrogant statement. All teams matter not just the Melbourne and Sydney teams They matter but not as much as the big teams. Otherwise FTA stations would be killing themselves just so they can show Central Coast vs Newcastle Pretty much. It's also why the league is generally in a better shape when the big 4 are top of the league compared to when it's CCM, Perth and Newcastle there instead.
Viennese Vuck
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mcjules
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+x+x+x+xBozza looking after the big cities. At least Merrick's got our back. To be utterly frank, the big cities are the only ones that actually matter. People watch their games and constantly talk about them on social media whilst media eyes are constantly fixed on these clubs. They are the ones that TV actually want to show, they are the only ones that aren't too cheap to embrace the Champions League properly and they drive the majority of interest in the competition. To restrict their level of squad investment and future success is self-defeating nonsense. what an arrogant statement. All teams matter not just the Melbourne and Sydney teams They matter but not as much as the big teams. Otherwise FTA stations would be killing themselves just so they can show Central Coast vs Newcastle No argument there. They also want competitive and entertaining fixtures. How do they fill 27 (possibly more after expansion) fixtures with those sorts of fixtures involving those 4 teams when they're significantly better than the other 6/8?
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aussie scott21
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That's bs mcj
Gosford Newcastle and Adelaide would have the same right as everyone else to spend.
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mcjules
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That's bs scott. Just like how those 3 franchises have the ability to buy 3 expensive out of cap marquees but don't.
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aussie scott21
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?
How is Adelaide being cheap Melbourne or Sydney's fault?
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mcjules
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It's not "their fault". The whole opinion piece is rubbish: - The argument that Adelaide is at the bottom because the cap prevented them from keeping players is rubbish. It could well be the same for WSW but I don't pay that much attention to them. I do know Topor-Stanley was here at the start of the season and Poppa didn't want him.
- Letting teams spend as much as they want on players somehow encourages innovation is rubbish. If anything, the cap encourages innovation in other areas.
- The finals being an "equalisation device" is rubbish. Adelaide have made the finals every year since 2012 and it's in no way something to get excited over.
Anyway, I've said my piece on this many times and it goes against what the more vocal and aggressive posters on this forum think so I rarely bother these days.
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HortoMagiko
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+xIt's not "their fault". The whole opinion piece is rubbish: - The argument that Adelaide is at the bottom because the cap prevented them from keeping players is rubbish. It could well be the same for WSW but I don't pay that much attention to them. I do know Topor-Stanley was here at the start of the season and Poppa didn't want him.
- Letting teams spend as much as they want on players somehow encourages innovation is rubbish. If anything, the cap encourages innovation in other areas.
- The finals being an "equalisation device" is rubbish. Adelaide have made the finals every year since 2012 and it's in no way something to get excited over.
Anyway, I've said my piece on this many times and it goes against what the more vocal and aggressive posters on this forum think so I rarely bother these days.
Ok jules the entire planet is wrong... generations of football is wrong... and youre right.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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melbourne_terrace
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+x+xIt's not "their fault". The whole opinion piece is rubbish: - The argument that Adelaide is at the bottom because the cap prevented them from keeping players is rubbish. It could well be the same for WSW but I don't pay that much attention to them. I do know Topor-Stanley was here at the start of the season and Poppa didn't want him.
- Letting teams spend as much as they want on players somehow encourages innovation is rubbish. If anything, the cap encourages innovation in other areas.
- The finals being an "equalisation device" is rubbish. Adelaide have made the finals every year since 2012 and it's in no way something to get excited over.
Anyway, I've said my piece on this many times and it goes against what the more vocal and aggressive posters on this forum think so I rarely bother these days.
Ok jules the entire planet is wrong... generations of football is wrong... and youre right. Always remember, we're special and Australia is different.
Viennese Vuck
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HortoMagiko
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+x+x+xIt's not "their fault". The whole opinion piece is rubbish: - The argument that Adelaide is at the bottom because the cap prevented them from keeping players is rubbish. It could well be the same for WSW but I don't pay that much attention to them. I do know Topor-Stanley was here at the start of the season and Poppa didn't want him.
- Letting teams spend as much as they want on players somehow encourages innovation is rubbish. If anything, the cap encourages innovation in other areas.
- The finals being an "equalisation device" is rubbish. Adelaide have made the finals every year since 2012 and it's in no way something to get excited over.
Anyway, I've said my piece on this many times and it goes against what the more vocal and aggressive posters on this forum think so I rarely bother these days.
Ok jules the entire planet is wrong... generations of football is wrong... and youre right. Always remember, we're special and Australia is different. Lol. Theyre never gonna let us forget :P
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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aufc_ole
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The 4+1 rule is equalization enough to stop the fear of a Bayern-esque monopoly.
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aussie scott21
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Jules
If there were 2 leagues a NSW Vic league and a Qld WA SA league I know which one I would watch.
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mcjules
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+xJulesIf there were 2 leagues a NSW Vic league and a Qld WA SA league I know which one I would watch. Yet more people watch the A-league than all 5 of those combined. Funny about that.
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HortoMagiko
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+xJulesIf there were 2 leagues a NSW Vic league and a Qld WA SA league I know which one I would watch. Same here. I mean its not like the best clubs in the history of the game in Aus arent from vic and nsw anyway...
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sub007
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The cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does
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ducky42
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+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does But the cap hinders good recruitment
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sub007
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+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does But the cap hinders good recruitment It makes it harder but at least there aren't teams blindly throwing money at players and paying them way more than what there worth.
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bluebird
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+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league
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bigpoppa
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Transfer fees would help with inflating the local players wages.
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sub007
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+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes.
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bigpoppa
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+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. Exactly, and it will continue to happen whether there is a salary cap or not. But without a salary cap clubs would have some hope of matching(or getting near) some overseas offers. I don't think all that would change too much removing the salary cap. We would see a few better/more expensive marquees but our clubs still won't be able to compete with bigger leagues around for the top shelf. and you would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players(which would be better for our overall pool of players.)
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sub007
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+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. Exactly, and it will continue to happen whether there is a salary cap or not. But without a salary cap clubs would have some hope of matching(or getting near) some overseas offers. Players are probably better off going overseas if they go to Europe, Japan or Korea. We would have no hope of matching the Chinese super league even without the cap. I don't think all that would change too much removing the salary cap. City would win the league every year. Victory and Sydney would be playing for second. The attendances of the other teams would drop as those teams would have no chance of winning anything and we would already know who will win the title. This means they would have even less money and as a result it would kill the league.
We would see a few better/more expensive marquees but our clubs still won't be able to compete with bigger leagues around for the top shelf. and you would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players(which would be better for our overall pool of players.)
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HortoMagiko
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+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. Exactly, and it will continue to happen whether there is a salary cap or not. But without a salary cap clubs would have some hope of matching(or getting near) some overseas offers. Players are probably better off going overseas if they go to Europe, Japan or Korea. We would have no hope of matching the Chinese super league even without the cap. I don't think all that would change too much removing the salary cap. City would win the league every year. Victory and Sydney would be playing for second. The attendances of the other teams would drop as those teams would have no chance of winning anything and we would already know who will win the title. This means they would have even less money and as a result it would kill the league.
We would see a few better/more expensive marquees but our clubs still won't be able to compete with bigger leagues around for the top shelf. and you would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players(which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Your posts reek of - we put a dumb/anomalous rule in place, (that for eg. Table tennis uses....and isnt used anywhere else in world football).... and now youre trying to convince people that its a good idea . Essentially, the "advantages" of a salary cap are irrelevant....same goes for any other stupid rule thats crowbarred into our game, that doesnt belong there in the first place. It simply doesnt belong there. Thats the point here. Sure the cap causes all kinds of problems and anomalies...and fyi thats why it shouldn't be there.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. Exactly, and it will continue to happen whether there is a salary cap or not. But without a salary cap clubs would have some hope of matching(or getting near) some overseas offers. Players are probably better off going overseas if they go to Europe, Japan or Korea. We would have no hope of matching the Chinese super league even without the cap. I don't think all that would change too much removing the salary cap. City would win the league every year. Victory and Sydney would be playing for second. The attendances of the other teams would drop as those teams would have no chance of winning anything and we would already know who will win the title. This means they would have even less money and as a result it would kill the league.
We would see a few better/more expensive marquees but our clubs still won't be able to compete with bigger leagues around for the top shelf. and you would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players(which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Your posts reek of - we put a dumb/anomalous rule in place, (that for eg. Table tennis uses....and isnt used anywhere else in world football).... and now youre trying to convince people that its a good idea . Essentially, the "advantages" of a salary cap are irrelevant....same goes for any other stupid rule thats crowbarred into our game, that doesnt belong there in the first place. It simply doesnt belong there. Thats the point here. Sure it causes all kinds of problems and anomalies...and fyi thats why it shouldn't be there. The cap works fine. Don't fix something that ain't broke.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. Exactly, and it will continue to happen whether there is a salary cap or not. But without a salary cap clubs would have some hope of matching(or getting near) some overseas offers. Players are probably better off going overseas if they go to Europe, Japan or Korea. We would have no hope of matching the Chinese super league even without the cap. I don't think all that would change too much removing the salary cap. City would win the league every year. Victory and Sydney would be playing for second. The attendances of the other teams would drop as those teams would have no chance of winning anything and we would already know who will win the title. This means they would have even less money and as a result it would kill the league.
We would see a few better/more expensive marquees but our clubs still won't be able to compete with bigger leagues around for the top shelf. and you would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players(which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Your posts reek of - we put a dumb/anomalous rule in place, (that for eg. Table tennis uses....and isnt used anywhere else in world football).... and now youre trying to convince people that its a good idea . Essentially, the "advantages" of a salary cap are irrelevant....same goes for any other stupid rule thats crowbarred into our game, that doesnt belong there in the first place. It simply doesnt belong there. Thats the point here. Sure it causes all kinds of problems and anomalies...and fyi thats why it shouldn't be there. The cap works fine. Don't fix something that ain't broke. Our league is broken partly bc of this anomalous rule that doesnt belong there. Go follow afl if you like their rules so much.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. Exactly, and it will continue to happen whether there is a salary cap or not. But without a salary cap clubs would have some hope of matching(or getting near) some overseas offers. Players are probably better off going overseas if they go to Europe, Japan or Korea. We would have no hope of matching the Chinese super league even without the cap. I don't think all that would change too much removing the salary cap. City would win the league every year. Victory and Sydney would be playing for second. The attendances of the other teams would drop as those teams would have no chance of winning anything and we would already know who will win the title. This means they would have even less money and as a result it would kill the league.
We would see a few better/more expensive marquees but our clubs still won't be able to compete with bigger leagues around for the top shelf. and you would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players(which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Your posts reek of - we put a dumb/anomalous rule in place, (that for eg. Table tennis uses....and isnt used anywhere else in world football).... and now youre trying to convince people that its a good idea . Essentially, the "advantages" of a salary cap are irrelevant....same goes for any other stupid rule thats crowbarred into our game, that doesnt belong there in the first place. It simply doesnt belong there. Thats the point here. Sure it causes all kinds of problems and anomalies...and fyi thats why it shouldn't be there. The cap works fine. Don't fix something that ain't broke. Our league is broken partly bc of this anomalous rule that doesnt belong there. Go follow afl if you like their rules so much. How is the league broken because of the salary cap?
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. Exactly, and it will continue to happen whether there is a salary cap or not. But without a salary cap clubs would have some hope of matching(or getting near) some overseas offers. Players are probably better off going overseas if they go to Europe, Japan or Korea. We would have no hope of matching the Chinese super league even without the cap. I don't think all that would change too much removing the salary cap. City would win the league every year. Victory and Sydney would be playing for second. The attendances of the other teams would drop as those teams would have no chance of winning anything and we would already know who will win the title. This means they would have even less money and as a result it would kill the league.
We would see a few better/more expensive marquees but our clubs still won't be able to compete with bigger leagues around for the top shelf. and you would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players(which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Your posts reek of - we put a dumb/anomalous rule in place, (that for eg. Table tennis uses....and isnt used anywhere else in world football).... and now youre trying to convince people that its a good idea . Essentially, the "advantages" of a salary cap are irrelevant....same goes for any other stupid rule thats crowbarred into our game, that doesnt belong there in the first place. It simply doesnt belong there. Thats the point here. Sure it causes all kinds of problems and anomalies...and fyi thats why it shouldn't be there. The cap works fine. Don't fix something that ain't broke. Our league is broken partly bc of this anomalous rule that doesnt belong there. Go follow afl if you like their rules so much. How is the league broken because of the salary cap? Do you actually watch the a league soccer competition?
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players?
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos.
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me.
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything. Let's be honest here. The above are not really Marquees because the FFA calls them so. Fornaroli for instance was a washout from the Greek Super League. he couldn't take a trick there and here is is all of a sudden a marquee, which in my opinion says a lot about the standard of our league.
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything. Let's be honest here. The above are not really Marquees because the FFA calls them so. Fornaroli for instance was a washout from the Greek Super League. he couldn't take a trick there and here is is all of a sudden a marquee, which in my opinion says a lot about the standard of our league. Sorry that's not how the marquee works though it's easy to make that mistake because that's how it was intended to be. Marquees can be anyone the club wants them to be, they're essentially just players whose wages aren't included in the cap. The only spot that FFA has any proper say over is the guest player which is the one that Tim Cahill is signed on. I agree, the standard of the league is mid-tier at best but it's quite entertaining and I love my Reds. However, the cap being removed isn't going to make even the richest teams FIFA Club World Cup contenders. It's going just going to lower competitiveness in our own league and related consequences.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything. Let's be honest here. The above are not really Marquees because the FFA calls them so. Fornaroli for instance was a washout from the Greek Super League. he couldn't take a trick there and here is is all of a sudden a marquee, which in my opinion says a lot about the standard of our league. Sorry that's not how the marquee works though it's easy to make that mistake because that's how it was intended to be. Marquees can be anyone the club wants them to be, they're essentially just players whose wages aren't included in the cap. The only spot that FFA has any proper say over is the guest player which is the one that Tim Cahill is signed on. I agree, the standard of the league is mid-tier at best but it's quite entertaining and I love my Reds. However, the cap being removed isn't going to make even the richest teams FIFA Club World Cup contenders. It's going just going to lower competitiveness in our own league and related consequences. Well that just makes it worse. If we can't afford to buy some stars, just make a marquee out of anyone that you just want to retain. We need some players like David Villa, not make a marquee out of the Berisha's and Fornaroli's.
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything. Let's be honest here. The above are not really Marquees because the FFA calls them so. Fornaroli for instance was a washout from the Greek Super League. he couldn't take a trick there and here is is all of a sudden a marquee, which in my opinion says a lot about the standard of our league. Sorry that's not how the marquee works though it's easy to make that mistake because that's how it was intended to be. Marquees can be anyone the club wants them to be, they're essentially just players whose wages aren't included in the cap. The only spot that FFA has any proper say over is the guest player which is the one that Tim Cahill is signed on. I agree, the standard of the league is mid-tier at best but it's quite entertaining and I love my Reds. However, the cap being removed isn't going to make even the richest teams FIFA Club World Cup contenders. It's going just going to lower competitiveness in our own league and related consequences. Well that just makes it worse. If we can't afford to buy some stars, just make a marquee out of anyone that you just want to retain. So scoring 29 goals in 33 games is not worthy of marquee status?
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything. Let's be honest here. The above are not really Marquees because the FFA calls them so. Fornaroli for instance was a washout from the Greek Super League. he couldn't take a trick there and here is is all of a sudden a marquee, which in my opinion says a lot about the standard of our league. Sorry that's not how the marquee works though it's easy to make that mistake because that's how it was intended to be. Marquees can be anyone the club wants them to be, they're essentially just players whose wages aren't included in the cap. The only spot that FFA has any proper say over is the guest player which is the one that Tim Cahill is signed on. I agree, the standard of the league is mid-tier at best but it's quite entertaining and I love my Reds. However, the cap being removed isn't going to make even the richest teams FIFA Club World Cup contenders. It's going just going to lower competitiveness in our own league and related consequences. Well that just makes it worse. If we can't afford to buy some stars, just make a marquee out of anyone that you just want to retain. So scoring 29 goals in 33 games is not worthy of marquee status? Probably in the A league, which is the problem. In the Greek Super League he didn't even get a lot of time on the field let alone score goals, and he was dropped. This to me indicates we need to raise our standards.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything. Let's be honest here. The above are not really Marquees because the FFA calls them so. Fornaroli for instance was a washout from the Greek Super League. he couldn't take a trick there and here is is all of a sudden a marquee, which in my opinion says a lot about the standard of our league. Sorry that's not how the marquee works though it's easy to make that mistake because that's how it was intended to be. Marquees can be anyone the club wants them to be, they're essentially just players whose wages aren't included in the cap. The only spot that FFA has any proper say over is the guest player which is the one that Tim Cahill is signed on. I agree, the standard of the league is mid-tier at best but it's quite entertaining and I love my Reds. However, the cap being removed isn't going to make even the richest teams FIFA Club World Cup contenders. It's going just going to lower competitiveness in our own league and related consequences. Well that just makes it worse. If we can't afford to buy some stars, just make a marquee out of anyone that you just want to retain. So scoring 29 goals in 33 games is not worthy of marquee status? Probably in the A league, which is the problem. In the Greek Super League he didn't even get a lot of time on the field let alone score goals, and he was dropped. This to me indicates we need to raise our standards. Makes me wonder about kiwi messi... i wasnt initially gung-ho on bringing him back - especially instead of signing diamanti... How he can dissappear into obscurity in europe...and how he kills it in the hal...makes me a little skeptical about how our non existent defenses stack up against european defenses tbh and the true mark of his abilities. One things for sure. He does kill it in the hal.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything. Let's be honest here. The above are not really Marquees because the FFA calls them so. Fornaroli for instance was a washout from the Greek Super League. he couldn't take a trick there and here is is all of a sudden a marquee, which in my opinion says a lot about the standard of our league. Sorry that's not how the marquee works though it's easy to make that mistake because that's how it was intended to be. Marquees can be anyone the club wants them to be, they're essentially just players whose wages aren't included in the cap. The only spot that FFA has any proper say over is the guest player which is the one that Tim Cahill is signed on. I agree, the standard of the league is mid-tier at best but it's quite entertaining and I love my Reds. However, the cap being removed isn't going to make even the richest teams FIFA Club World Cup contenders. It's going just going to lower competitiveness in our own league and related consequences. Well that just makes it worse. If we can't afford to buy some stars, just make a marquee out of anyone that you just want to retain. So scoring 29 goals in 33 games is not worthy of marquee status? Probably in the A league, which is the problem. In the Greek Super League he didn't even get a lot of time on the field let alone score goals, and he was dropped. This to me indicates we need to raise our standards. Makes me wonder about kiwi messi... i wasnt initially gung-ho on bringing him back - especially instead of signing diamanti... How he can dissappear into obscurity in europe...and how he kills it in the hal...makes me a little skeptical about how our non existent defenses stack up against european defenses tbh and the true mark of his abilities. One things for sure. He does kill it in the hal. A League teams would get demolished playing even mediocre European sides. If there was something to play for. A friendly doesn't count because none of the teams will risk injuries to their stars over a silly backyard match.
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bigpoppa
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything. This is where my comment on growing the overall talent pool comes from. They may not win anything but they gain experience and are given an opportunity sooner that may not have came about with a salary cap. At the moment you have younger player stuck on the bench because a salary cap is spreads the talent evenly. Remove the salary cap and you will end up with the bigger clubs buying the more experience and 'proven' player from the smaller clubs which in turn pushes out the younger player from the bigger clubs who go looking for game time at the smaller clubs. Throw in transfer fees(which you would assume goes hand in hand with removing the cap) and it becomes more beneficial for the smaller clubs to play their own products as opposed to signing the journeyman that we see float from club to club each transfer period.
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything. This is where my comment on growing the overall talent pool comes from. They may not win anything but they gain experience and are given an opportunity sooner that may not have came about with a salary cap. At the moment you have younger player stuck on the bench because a salary cap is spreads the talent evenly. Remove the salary cap and you will end up with the bigger clubs buying the more experience and 'proven' player from the smaller clubs which in turn pushes out the younger player from the bigger clubs who go looking for game time at the smaller clubs. Throw in transfer fees(which you would assume goes hand in hand with removing the cap) and it becomes more beneficial for the smaller clubs to play their own products as opposed to signing the journeyman that we see float from club to club each transfer period. Right now we get our best youth playing regularly in good sides learning off experienced players. We've had teams that were loaded with youth players already when owners have cracked the shits. They finished bottom and very few of those players kicked on.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xyou would probably see the better current A-League players migrate towards the bigger clubs whilst the smaller clubs will rely more on NPL/Youth players (which would be better for our overall pool of players.) Why would that be better for our overall pool of players? Because the best are playing with the best and developing an understanding. This translates to when they play for the shokkazoos. That's the opposite of improving the overall pool of players and the best still aren't going to be playing here in the A-league. We have nothing in common with these leagues either. There is no international talent pool these leagues can recruit from for one, unlike Association Football. Melbourne City and a couple of other teams like Sydney, WSW, and MVFC could bring some top caliber players into the A League. The more that they spend, the better quality of the players they will entice and recruit. How that is a bad thing is beyond me. I think you quoted the wrong post. Anyway basketball is almost as huge as football and there is a massive international talent pool of players. Rugby League and Union also have international talent pools and have capped leagues. Ice Hockey is another. I've already asked why you think they'll get better (I assume international) players without a cap? They have a marquee rule already and this is who they have: Victory: Berisha, Bozanic City: Fornaroli, Colazo WSW: Martinez Sydney: Holosko, Bobo All perfectly decent players but are any of those that much better than some of the non-marquee visa players? Maybe Fornaroli and Berisha but they came here within the salary cap. Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything. This.
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bluebird
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap"
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miron mercedes
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
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+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" ....don't know the answer to the cap situation....but we are at a place where the questions should be asked . The football standard is getting better each year but crowds and ratings are not. Something needs to be looked at for change . Not sure taking the cap away is the answer but a renovation may be needed Even when a business is successful it still needs innovation to stay ahead ....we need innovation .
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
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+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club.
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bluebird
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
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+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power And as mentioned attendances and ratings are not at a level where we can conclusively say fans are captivated by the salary cap The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons for it are speculative
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well Pretty funny when he calls his side of the argument factual when it in fact contains errors and is full of speculation.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well Pretty funny when he calls his side of the argument factual when it in fact contains errors and is full of speculation. Are you referring to me or bluebird?
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well Pretty funny when he calls his side of the argument factual when it in fact contains errors and is full of speculation. Are you referring to me or bluebird? bluebird mate.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well Pretty funny when he calls his side of the argument factual when it in fact contains errors and is full of speculation. No its not. Point to where it is. Its easy to say stuff without backing it up jules.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well Pretty funny when he calls his side of the argument factual when it in fact contains errors and is full of speculation. No its not. Point to where it is. Its easy to say stuff without backing it up jules. Evidently ;)
To find some answers to your question, you only have to read the post I quoted.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well If your fans are fickle then that your problem. Domt hold back growth of the game because you have fairweather fans. "Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all." Piss off draups.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well If your fans are fickle then that your problem. Domt hold back growth of the game because you have fairweather fans. "Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all." Piss off draups. Every team has fairweather fans. I'm also not draups.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well If your fans are fickle then that your problem. Domt hold back growth of the game because you have fairweather fans. "Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all." Piss off draups. Every team has fairweather fans. I'm also not draups. If youre not draups then why are you trolling so hard? I think its been made quite explicitly clear that implementing a salary cap because AFL has one is indefensible to anyone who is football literate.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well If your fans are fickle then that your problem. Domt hold back growth of the game because you have fairweather fans. "Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all." Piss off draups. Every team has fairweather fans. I'm also not draups. If youre not draups then why are you trolling so hard? I think its been made quite explicitly clear that implementing a salary cap because AFL has one is indefensible to anyone who is football literate. People with different opinions to you aren't trolling.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well If your fans are fickle then that your problem. Domt hold back growth of the game because you have fairweather fans. "Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all." Piss off draups. Every team has fairweather fans. I'm also not draups. If youre not draups then why are you trolling so hard? I think its been made quite explicitly clear that implementing a salary cap because AFL has one is indefensible to anyone who is football literate. I never said we should have a salary cap because the AFL has one.
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bluebird
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe cap doesn't punish success, poor recruitment does It does punish success When a team wins, the value of its best players go up. The team can't afford to keep the players under the cap so they have to cut
You cant have watched much of the A League if you haven't seen this It also punishes progress. There is often a correlation between the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a player and the amount of money they get. Maybe the FFA should have a salary cap. $50k for a CEO, $35k for an accountant. Lets test their "creativity" and "innovation" and see what they can come up with And its not as if the metrics are good. Its not like we are choosing between a league with P/R / no salary cap, or a league with a $600m-$700m TV deal with games rating 300k-400k. Doing things the Australian way for a game built on conformity and all inclusiveness has given us no advantage than had we simply built a competitive football league The best A-League players either go to Europe or the J League or K League regardless of where a team finishes. I'm not talking about the best players. I'm talking about players that the A League can afford. If a team loses a $500k player to an overseas club, they can then offer that $500k to another A League player MV did it to Brisbane. Wellington did it to MV There's no science behind the salary cap. Its just something we have because we're Australian and that's what Australian's do. And the figure chosen is ambiguous. As mentioned above, the AFL can afford to have a salary cap because they have all the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering because there is no incentive to do so It doesn't work in the A League. Despite having a salary cap the amount of club whores in the league is ridiculous. I think one player is up to 7 clubs. We also have international interest to contend with Not only that but because the "punish the top teams" happens via the draft in the AFL, clubs can stay at top for 3-4 years. In the A League there is only 1 instance in 12 seasons of back to back titles (regardless of which one you value the most). There is just no chance for a team to go back to back There is no question as to the detrimental impact a salary cap has on the top teams. The "opinion" part of the topic is whether such a system can be vindicated Even 12 years on the A League still has "normal games" around the 8k-10k mark. Ratings at the 60k mark. Clubs haven't moved much from attendances in the first few seasons. This notion that fans are only interested in a balanced league is full of shit As for balance: If the team that won the season before is at a disadvantage, is that balance? Is concessions for WSW balance? Is Cahill for City balance? Is a 20 point gap in the top half of the table balance? The salary cap is not giving our league a level of support we couldn't get in an uncapped league. It also doesn't provide balance The only thing it does is crush the teams at the top so another team inevitably wins it, and over a long period of time titles are distributed across more teams This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership.Is that really the goal of the A League first and foremost when we only have 9 Australian professional teams and all our national teams are struggling? No one is really in financial trouble at the moment.
There is nothing about the A League that we can look at and say "that's why we need a salary cap" The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club. This is a good thing. This keeps the league interesting. People won't watch a league where only one team can win the title. That's why no one gives a shit about the Scottish Premiership. That's just an extreme doomsday rant that has no ground in reality Out of all the leagues in the world, why is it only Australia and Scotland will end up like Scotland? The Australian sports market is different. Investment is sport and the marketplace is fierce and competitive. There is just no way one team will dominate and everybody else will be left in their wake We have 3 major metropolitan areas (and 2 secondary). The major areas have (will have) multiple teams. There is more than one foreign investor. Plenty of local investors with money. The 4+1 rule means Aussie talent determines league winners (not just buying in talent) As for "people wont watch the league if its not interesting". This is also a poor argument with no grounding in reality There have been no crowds of 0. CCM in their worst year got a better attendance than the season before. As mentioned, Aussies love sport. Even when CCM are performing poorly they still have WSW home games, or visiting marquees Our league is built on the notion that the majority of people only want to watch their team win but its a complete load of shit. You are describing a handful of glory hunting casuals who only watch 1-2 games a year, and aren't watching the 9 seasons when it isn't their team's turn to win And its a loss for the club, not for the league. The loss of one set of glory hunting fans is replaced by another as somebody's gotta win it The Australian sports market has proven that teams cannot dominate for decades at a time. Usually its 4-5 years at most - with or without a salary cap. Even in the women's game where there is no cap and only two major academies developing talent we have seen 2-3 shifts of power The reasons against a salary cap are factual. The reasons against it are speculative I used Scotland as an example as Celtic spend way more than the other clubs and win the title every year. In the A-League we have Melbourne City who have way more money than the other clubs. If the cap goes they can spend as much as they want to win the league and go far into the ACL. You also say that crowds won't change much. That is incorrect. I'm an Adelaide fan and when we play like shit our crowds drop off. For example at the start of the season we were getting 14,000 to games. For the last two games against Victory and City we have got 10000. I think I heard that the crowd we got against Victory was the lowest we have ever got against them. Your comment about the Australian sports market isn't relevant as most other sporting leagues in Australia are salary capped if not all. The W-League also has a salary cap so that comment is wrong.as well How can City buy the title when there is a limit on the number of Visa players? They will need 18 Australian based players in their squad and its the quality of these that will determine their finishing place Also 10,000 is still 70% retention of fans. It says that poor teams get 70% of fans, mid table teams get about 85% and the league leader gets 100%. Given that we only have 1-2 teams at the top and 1-2 at the bottom, the overall impact on the league is moot. Its the same equation for a salary capped league. The only difference is the names of the teams at the top and bottom As for the W League, the salary cap is a placebo. It isn't turning players away. And having City try to buy the league reinforces my first point. Money only buys Australian based players and there are more than 18 talented women in the country. Have a look at how City are doing this year And incidentally, in an open league Adelaide will not be shit kicking at the bottom of the table, like WSW were at some point. In fact all big clubs have had their place in the bottom 3 shit kicking around with 70% of fans. This is the product of a salary cap. In an uncapped league it will be CCM and Newcastle getting 70% turn out and the bigger regions pushing the 85% and 100% As for salary caps in other Australian sports, they are effective because they have 100% of the players. A salary cap stops players from wondering. Any sport looks to have caps and regulations in place to stop anti-competitive actions whether it is a salary cap, state of origin or the 4+1 rule. Sports need to choose the one that fits their circumstances. We have chosen two: The one best for football, and the one we have to have because we are Australian
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99 Problems
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More and more money is coming in to football all over the world. Our league exists in that marketplace and the longer we have a cap the further behind we go to everywhere else. It just comes down to at what point does having an even league become a greater cost than the quality of the football being played. I certainly think we've reached that point.
Also it's increadibly insulting to club owners and administrators suggesting that if the cap is removed they will all suddenly start over spending and effectively run their business into the ground.
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mcjules
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+xMore and more money is coming in to football all over the world. Our league exists in that marketplace and the longer we have a cap the further behind we go to everywhere else. It just comes down to at what point does having an even league become a greater cost than the quality of the football being played. I certainly think we've reached that point. Spending more money on Australian players is not going to make us the EPL or even the J-League. We have to improve the quality of our players. How much are the clubs spending on that at the moment?
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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hames_jetfield
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+x+xMore and more money is coming in to football all over the world. Our league exists in that marketplace and the longer we have a cap the further behind we go to everywhere else. It just comes down to at what point does having an even league become a greater cost than the quality of the football being played. I certainly think we've reached that point. Spending more money on Australian players is not going to make us the EPL or even the J-League. We have to improve the quality of our players. How much are the clubs spending on that at the moment? Pay enough to keep the ones that are good enough to play in the top leagues in Asia but not Europe so they can stay here. The same with foreign imports.
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99 Problems
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+x+xMore and more money is coming in to football all over the world. Our league exists in that marketplace and the longer we have a cap the further behind we go to everywhere else. It just comes down to at what point does having an even league become a greater cost than the quality of the football being played. I certainly think we've reached that point. Spending more money on Australian players is not going to make us the EPL or even the J-League. We have to improve the quality of our players. How much are the clubs spending on that at the moment? But if we do improve our level of players their demand will increase globally and they will be forced to leave due to the cap. We will always lose our top talent but there is plenty of mid range talent we should be doing more to keep.
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Barca4Life
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Bozza for FFA chairman.
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aussie scott21
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I think that FFA will increase the top 6 to a top 8 in the future. But under the current system I would like to see them scrap the cap and change the finals format.
2 things about it that are wrong imo. The fact that 1st has to play the same amount of finals games as 2nd and that 5th and 6th have the possibility to play a GF against each other.
I think it should be Round 27
Wednesday 5 v 6
Friday 3 v 4
Sunday 2 v 5/6
Friday Semi (two middle ranked teams left)
Sunday 1 v lowest remaining team
Sunday GF
You get 1 extra finals game. It also means for 1 to win the gf they have 2 games, 2,3,4 have 3 games and 5 or 6 have 4 games.
This is an extra incentive to come first (to spend).
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aussie scott21
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So they rig the league to ensure it isn't rigged
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Multibet
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+xSo they rig the league to ensure it isn't rigged
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lukerobinho
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There's more to Australian football then just Melbourne and Sydney, that's why we have the cap
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jlm8695
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The cap attemptd to make every team to act like Melbourne Victory or Sydney when regional teams would be far better off spending what is sustainable for them and receiving appropriate compensation for players desired by other clubs.
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sub007
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+xThe cap attemptd to make every team to act like Melbourne Victory or Sydney when regional teams would be far better off spending what is sustainable for them and receiving appropriate compensation for players desired by other clubs. We can have transfer fees but still keep the salary cap.
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sub007
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+xThere's more to Australian football then just Melbourne and Sydney, that's why we have the cap This. If the cap is scrapped then Melbourne City will buy the title every year, Victory and Sydney would be playing for second and this would make the league incredibly boring as the owners of the other clubs simply do not have the money to compete. The crowds for the rest of the teams will probably drop off as they will probably have no chance of winning anything and the clubs will have even less money to spend if this happens, In short removing the cap will make the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
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aussie scott21
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Scrapping the cap doesn't mean scrapping the cap for Sydney and Melbourne teams only.
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aussie scott21
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i can't see how a team assembling the best possible squad is a bad thing.
As for City buying the championship every year, they may well end up with the most expensive squad but what is happening this season? Not close to first. They may well win the gf but perhaps not.
In a league that has finals, it is hard to buy it each season because there are playoffs at the end.
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sub007
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+xi can't see how a team assembling the best possible squad is a bad thing. As for City buying the championship every year, they may well end up with the most expensive squad but what is happening this season? Not close to first. They may well win the gf but perhaps not.
In a league that has finals, it is hard to buy it each season because there are playoffs at the end. That's because all of the squad bar the marquees and Cahill are under the cap. When you have a whole squad without a cap no one will stand a chance.
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lukerobinho
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+xi can't see how a team assembling the best possible squad is a bad thing. As for City buying the championship every year, they may well end up with the most expensive squad but what is happening this season? Not close to first. They may well win the gf but perhaps not. In a league that has finals, it is hard to buy it each season because there are playoffs at the end. No it's not happening you can see tangible weaknesses in the city squad that wouldn't be there otherwise, guys like Rose Muscat etc. would be replaced by better players on higher wages
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aussie scott21
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I still don't see the incentive to spend that big atm. There is sweet FA prize money from FFA and the winner of the ACL doesn't get that much. (With top 3 making ACL).
If they brought 5 visa players better than anyone in the league now I only think it would be good for football in Australia.
MC only get to spend as much as their owners want. It's not an open check book. Sure they may get to at least spend the same amount as the top clubs, but they will be looking to spend just enough to win the league. Not have a $20 million team.
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sub007
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+xI still don't see the incentive to spend that big atm. There is sweet FA prize money from FFA and the winner of the ACL doesn't get that much. (With top 3 making ACL). If they brought 5 visa players better than anyone in the league now I only think it would be good for football in Australia. MC only get to spend as much as their owners want. It's not an open check book. Sure they may get to at least spend the same amount as the top clubs, but they will be looking to spend just enough to win the league. Not have a $20 million team. They would spend enough to win the ACL which would mean they would spend well over the $9 million or however much they are spending now. The more success they have, the more their brand will grow which is an incentive to spend more.
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lukerobinho
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+xI still don't see the incentive to spend that big atm. There is sweet FA prize money from FFA and the winner of the ACL doesn't get that much. (With top 3 making ACL). If they brought 5 visa players better than anyone in the league now I only think it would be good for football in Australia. MC only get to spend as much as their owners want. It's not an open check book. Sure they may get to at least spend the same amount as the top clubs, but they will be looking to spend just enough to win the league. Not have a $20 million team. I wasnt aware the only incentive to win trophies was prize money
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bohemia
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+xI still don't see the incentive to spend that big atm. There is sweet FA prize money from FFA and the winner of the ACL doesn't get that much. (With top 3 making ACL). If they brought 5 visa players better than anyone in the league now I only think it would be good for football in Australia. MC only get to spend as much as their owners want. It's not an open check book. Sure they may get to at least spend the same amount as the top clubs, but they will be looking to spend just enough to win the league. Not have a $20 million team. 3 mill is nothing to sneeze at
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aussie scott21
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It seems like if the cap was scrapped people assume MC will bring home the entire Socceroos squad, keep Bruno and bring in Kaka, Oscar and Tevez.
Not going to happen.
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aussie scott21
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And for the record if you wanted to win throphies at any price you wouldn't bring in people like Koren. So I don't assume you have access to a bottomless pit of money.
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sub007
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+xAnd for the record if you wanted to win throphies at any price you wouldn't bring in people like Koren. So I don't assume you have access to a bottomless pit of money. That was two seasons ago and according to the City forum they are apparently trying to sign Iniesta and to sign him you are going to need a shit tonne of money. Here is the link to the thread: http://forum.melbournefootball.com/topic/3885-iniesta-to-melbourne-city/
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MCMH
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If we had no cap we wouldn't have Rose, Muscat Retre etc etc etc
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aussie scott21
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@boh
The exposure is worth more than the money for them. But I still think they work under a budget. Albeit a higher budget than other clubs in the league. But they won't match Eg China and won't be able to bring back Socceroos players from there.
On a side note was at a birthday party last night drinking Becherovka... It's better than Fernet Branca anyway
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bohemia
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+x@bohThe exposure is worth more than the money for them. But I still think they work under a budget. Albeit a higher budget than other clubs in the league. But they won't match Eg China and won't be able to bring back Socceroos players from there.On a side note was at a birthday party last night drinking Becherovka... It's better than Fernet Branca anyway :D Consider yourself lucky. When I'm with family here that shit just gets dished out like it's the Velvet Revolution all over again. I hate it. But if I say no an uncle looks at me like "oh, he must want the slivervička instead". That stuff sends you half way to the moon without legs.
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sub007
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@Scott21
City would attempt to get Socceroos home. This would give them more exposure. Even if they can't the A-League would be a one team league with City winning every year. The A-League would be like the Scottish Premiership or Ligue 1 except City are a small club unlike PSG and Celtic.
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bigpoppa
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Let us not forget the 4+1 rule
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sub007
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+xLet us not forget the 4+1 rule This would mean that Aussie players would be worth more. If we remove the cap then we are going have Aussie players that are way overpaid/overpriced and this could mean that European clubs may not want to sign Aussie players anymore.
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aussie scott21
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Even if they bought Socceroos I don't see it as being a bad thing. It only strengthens the league.
I guess if they bought the best team every year then the other clubs would be forced to step up. Hardly a bad thing in my world as a football fan.
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sub007
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+xEven if they bought Socceroos I don't see it as being a bad thing. It only strengthens the league. I guess if they bought the best team every year then the other clubs would be forced to step up. Hardly a bad thing in my world as a football fan. The only way this could happen is if the other clubs spend money they don't have and look where that strategy got Leeds, Parma and Portsmouth.
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aussie scott21
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And that their is a grand final. You can win the league by 20 points in Australia and still not be champion.
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sub007
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+xAnd that their is a grand final. You can win the league by 20 points in Australia and still not be champion. Winning the Premiership is just as important as the Grand Final if not more important. Also in the 11 previous seasons in the A-League the team that finished first has won the Grand Final seven times while the other four seasons the team in second has won. This means you have to pretty much finish in the top two to win the Grand Final.
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aussie scott21
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That already happens, just substitute China for Australia.
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sub007
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+xThat already happens, just substitute China for Australia. Just because Chinese players are way overpaid doesn't mean it should happen in Australia.
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aussie scott21
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No I mean because of the +1 Australian players worth are already inflated.
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sub007
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+xNo I mean because of the +1 Australian players worth are already inflated. Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Only the Aussies playing in China would have their value inflated at the moment
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aussie scott21
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@ boh
Due to family circumstances I may have a lot more contact with Czechs in the future and shots as such.
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bohemia
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+x@ bohDue to family circumstances I may have a lot more contact with Czechs in the future and shots as such. "to stačí" or "mám dost" will save your life mate. also, leave a little in your glass. If you empty the glass it means you want more. Nearly died learning that.
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NuxLover
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Nix would probably be top of the league, the cap is holding us back the most.
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Gayfish
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+xNix would probably be top of the league, the cap is holding us back the most. Aussies holding you back cuz.
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RedFunk
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+xNix would probably be top of the league, the cap is holding us back the most. :blink:
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mcjules
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The salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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moops
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+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. Agree
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bluebird
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+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. When a player's worth goes up based on their performance and a club can't afford to keep them - that is what you are describing. And yes, it does happen If on the other hand a player's worth goes up and the rules of the league means the club is no longer allowed to have that player (or has to make decisions to cut other players), that is an example of the salary cap punishing success It is undeniable that the salary cap is punishing successful clubs. Some will call it a side effect. Some will call it the purpose of the cap
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mcjules
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+x+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. When a player's worth goes up based on their performance and a club can't afford to keep them - that is what you are describing. And yes, it does happen If on the other hand a player's worth goes up and the rules of the league means the club is no longer allowed to have that player (or has to make decisions to cut other players), that is an example of the salary cap punishing success It is undeniable that the salary cap is punishing successful clubs. Some will call it a side effect. Some will call it the purpose of the cap It happens but it's way overplayed. We lose some Djite's and Bridge's to which a club may be able to keep if they pay more. We also lose these sorts of players from clubs that didn't win anything too. And we lose players like Holland who weren't successful at all for their teams. Also hypothetically without a salary cap, if a team like Newcastle or Central Coast manage to fluke a title. They'd lose all their players and get punished for their success. Most likely for nothing as who's going to sign a long term deal for low wages and even the "rich" teams don't pay transfer fees at the moment for anyone. The cap "punishes" clubs that have bigger markets and therefore a greater propensity to generate revenue. This is somewhat independent of success as you've seen two teams that were pretty average last year in Sydney and Victory were still able to spend way more than clubs that were more successful than them last year. Personally I think the cap isn't strict enough, we have clubs like Sydney spending heaps on players like Holosko and Bobo who while are better than average players are not "marquees" that bring a lot to the league. A couple of million dollars a year in wages spent elsewhere could do a lot for the club in terms of facilities and community engagement which could bring them a lot of members and build football in this country for the long term. Marquees should be restricted to something much closer to the new part FFA funded guest player rule is but perhaps not quite as strict.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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HortoMagiko
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+x+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. When a player's worth goes up based on their performance and a club can't afford to keep them - that is what you are describing. And yes, it does happen If on the other hand a player's worth goes up and the rules of the league means the club is no longer allowed to have that player (or has to make decisions to cut other players), that is an example of the salary cap punishing success It is undeniable that the salary cap is punishing successful clubs. Some will call it a side effect. Some will call it the purpose of the cap And i call it a fucking joke.... Or "soccer-lite"..... or "mr lowy can we pls put our big boy pants on pretty please league"
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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aufc_ole
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+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. I notice other codes that have a salary cap (Afl, NRL, NBA, NFL etc) are the elite leagues of their respective sports and have the pick of the best talent. We have none of those things in common but still use the same system?
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HortoMagiko
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+x+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. I notice other codes that have a salary cap (Afl, NRL, NBA, NFL etc) are the elite leagues of their respective sports and have the pick of the best talent. We have none of those things in common but still use the same system? Its madness. Utter madness. We mimic domestic insular midget sports...yet we are the world game.. its not wise to proverbially take ourselves off the grid. We dont need abberant rules, that dont align with world football protocols, in our domestic game. We dont need training wheels. We dont need soccer-lite. We need a bonafide league. We deserve the bare minimum of a bonafide league.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mcjules
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+x+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. I notice other codes that have a salary cap (Afl, NRL, NBA, NFL etc) are the elite leagues of their respective sports and have the pick of the best talent. We have none of those things in common but still use the same system? Has nothing to do with how "elite" the league is. There are a heap of leagues around the world that have salary caps that aren't the elite league.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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HortoMagiko
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+x+x+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. I notice other codes that have a salary cap (Afl, NRL, NBA, NFL etc) are the elite leagues of their respective sports and have the pick of the best talent. We have none of those things in common but still use the same system? Has nothing to do with how "elite" the league is. There are a heap of leagues around the world that have salary caps that aren't the elite league. Association football leagues? I doubt it.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mcjules
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+x+x+x+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. I notice other codes that have a salary cap (Afl, NRL, NBA, NFL etc) are the elite leagues of their respective sports and have the pick of the best talent. We have none of those things in common but still use the same system? Has nothing to do with how "elite" the league is. There are a heap of leagues around the world that have salary caps that aren't the elite league. Association football leagues? I doubt it. None of the leagues that aufc_ole mentioned were association football leagues.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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aufc_ole
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+x+x+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. I notice other codes that have a salary cap (Afl, NRL, NBA, NFL etc) are the elite leagues of their respective sports and have the pick of the best talent. We have none of those things in common but still use the same system? Has nothing to do with how "elite" the league is. There are a heap of leagues around the world that have salary caps that aren't the elite league. Do they have the same international aspect and competition like football does?
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mcjules
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+x+x+x+xThe salary cap doesn't punish success (at least from a football perspective). What punishes success is the fact we're a middling league where our best players want to always go on to challenge themselves elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with this either in my opinion. I notice other codes that have a salary cap (Afl, NRL, NBA, NFL etc) are the elite leagues of their respective sports and have the pick of the best talent. We have none of those things in common but still use the same system? Has nothing to do with how "elite" the league is. There are a heap of leagues around the world that have salary caps that aren't the elite league. Do they have the same international aspect and competition like football does? That's a bit of a loaded question because we all know "Football is the most international and competitive blah blah blah" but yes they're international and have competition.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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StiflersMom
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Said it in that thread predicting the ladder before the start of the season, Adelaide recited poorly, that's all there is to their story
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Eniri
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The cap is the main reason so many players are on short term contracts, again making real team building difficult. Along with the no transfer fees rule it is also the cause of a lot of the player/team disputes when it is very hard to replace players.
I get the cap benefits, especially at the start of the A-league but it has to be a short term thing.
I would suggest that we move to a 'soft' cap as an in between step. Go a dollar over cap and you have to give a dollar spread between the other teams. Add capped transfer fees as an interim measure and you have a system that allows flexibility and team building, while still encouraging competitiveness. And if someone like MC wants to go 10mil over then great, everyone profits.
From there you can go full cap free later on if you want.
Edit. Also more finals and merch money for clubs.
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mouflonrouge
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I support abolition of the salary cap as well.
Basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country.
I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone should be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition.
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sub007
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+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition.
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HortoMagiko
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+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. Youre just speculating and fear mongering.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sub007
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+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering.
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HortoMagiko
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+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering. Bahahaha. Spl... we have bundesliga, la liga, epl, eridivise, serie a......not to mention all the sth american leagues... and let alone our own confed jleague etc......... and you choose spl as your go-to. How convenient. And ridiculous. And indicative of the small bubble you live in, in terms of football.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering. Bahahaha. Spl... we have bundesliga, la liga, epl, eridivise, serie a......not to mention all the sth american leagues... and let alone our own confed jleague etc......... and you choose spl as your go-to. How convenient. And ridiculous. And indicative of the small bubble you live in, in terms of football. The Bundesliga and La Liga and Eredivise have three teams that can win the title not one. I don't know much about South American leagues so I can't comment about them. The J-League seems to be a competitive league because there isn't one club way richer than the rest.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering. Bahahaha. Spl... we have bundesliga, la liga, epl, eridivise, serie a......not to mention all the sth american leagues... and let alone our own confed jleague etc......... and you choose spl as your go-to. How convenient. And ridiculous. And indicative of the small bubble you live in, in terms of football. The Bundesliga and La Liga and Eredivise have three teams that can win the title not one. I don't know much about South American leagues so I can't comment about them. The J-League seems to be a competitive league because there isn't one club way richer than the rest. None of the leagues i mentioned have a salary cap. And has it stopped fans watching the league? Has it brought the doomsday scenario that youre spruiking? No it hasnt. Id go with reality.... in the real world....over your speculation and fear mongering.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering. Bahahaha. Spl... we have bundesliga, la liga, epl, eridivise, serie a......not to mention all the sth american leagues... and let alone our own confed jleague etc......... and you choose spl as your go-to. How convenient. And ridiculous. And indicative of the small bubble you live in, in terms of football. The Bundesliga and La Liga and Eredivise have three teams that can win the title not one. I don't know much about South American leagues so I can't comment about them. The J-League seems to be a competitive league because there isn't one club way richer than the rest. None of the leagues i mentioned have a salary cap. And has it stopped fans watching the league? Has it brought the doomsday scenario that youre spruiking? No it hasnt. Id go with reality.... in the real world....over your speculation and fear mongering. I was talking about leagues which only have one team that can win the title so you missed my point.
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HortoMagiko
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering. Bahahaha. Spl... we have bundesliga, la liga, epl, eridivise, serie a......not to mention all the sth american leagues... and let alone our own confed jleague etc......... and you choose spl as your go-to. How convenient. And ridiculous. And indicative of the small bubble you live in, in terms of football. The Bundesliga and La Liga and Eredivise have three teams that can win the title not one. I don't know much about South American leagues so I can't comment about them. The J-League seems to be a competitive league because there isn't one club way richer than the rest. None of the leagues i mentioned have a salary cap. And has it stopped fans watching the league? Has it brought the doomsday scenario that youre spruiking? No it hasnt. Id go with reality.... in the real world....over your speculation and fear mongering. I was talking about leagues which only have one team that can win the title so you missed my point. So have fans stopped watching spl now have they? Youre creating a point out of thin air to suit your narrative. And What is your point exactly? That if we remove tge salary cap then we will become spl, who havent failed anyway, instead of becoming any of the other 200 odd leagues in the world that dont have a salary cap. Thats the extent of your argument.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering. Bahahaha. Spl... we have bundesliga, la liga, epl, eridivise, serie a......not to mention all the sth american leagues... and let alone our own confed jleague etc......... and you choose spl as your go-to. How convenient. And ridiculous. And indicative of the small bubble you live in, in terms of football. The Bundesliga and La Liga and Eredivise have three teams that can win the title not one. I don't know much about South American leagues so I can't comment about them. The J-League seems to be a competitive league because there isn't one club way richer than the rest. None of the leagues i mentioned have a salary cap. And has it stopped fans watching the league? Has it brought the doomsday scenario that youre spruiking? No it hasnt. Id go with reality.... in the real world....over your speculation and fear mongering. I was talking about leagues which only have one team that can win the title so you missed my point. So have fans stopped watching spl now have they? Youre creating a point out of thin air to suit your narrative. And What is your point exactly? That if we remove tge salary cap then we will become spl, who havent failed anyway, instead of becoming any of the other 200 odd leagues in the world that dont have a salary cap. Thats the extent of your argument. My argument is that the league becomes boring like the SPL as one team (Melbourne City) would win the title every year as they can outspend everyone.
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering. Bahahaha. Spl... we have bundesliga, la liga, epl, eridivise, serie a......not to mention all the sth american leagues... and let alone our own confed jleague etc......... and you choose spl as your go-to. How convenient. And ridiculous. And indicative of the small bubble you live in, in terms of football. The Bundesliga and La Liga and Eredivise have three teams that can win the title not one. I don't know much about South American leagues so I can't comment about them. The J-League seems to be a competitive league because there isn't one club way richer than the rest. None of the leagues i mentioned have a salary cap. And has it stopped fans watching the league? Has it brought the doomsday scenario that youre spruiking? No it hasnt. Id go with reality.... in the real world....over your speculation and fear mongering. I was talking about leagues which only have one team that can win the title so you missed my point. So have fans stopped watching spl now have they? Youre creating a point out of thin air to suit your narrative. And What is your point exactly? That if we remove tge salary cap then we will become spl, who havent failed anyway, instead of becoming any of the other 200 odd leagues in the world that dont have a salary cap. Thats the extent of your argument. My argument is that the league becomes boring like the SPL as one team (Melbourne City) would win the title every year as they can outspend everyone. I don't believe that is the case. MVFC, Sydney, and WSW would also be in it and will likely spend as much as city.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering. Bahahaha. Spl... we have bundesliga, la liga, epl, eridivise, serie a......not to mention all the sth american leagues... and let alone our own confed jleague etc......... and you choose spl as your go-to. How convenient. And ridiculous. And indicative of the small bubble you live in, in terms of football. The Bundesliga and La Liga and Eredivise have three teams that can win the title not one. I don't know much about South American leagues so I can't comment about them. The J-League seems to be a competitive league because there isn't one club way richer than the rest. None of the leagues i mentioned have a salary cap. And has it stopped fans watching the league? Has it brought the doomsday scenario that youre spruiking? No it hasnt. Id go with reality.... in the real world....over your speculation and fear mongering. I was talking about leagues which only have one team that can win the title so you missed my point. So have fans stopped watching spl now have they? Youre creating a point out of thin air to suit your narrative. And What is your point exactly? That if we remove tge salary cap then we will become spl, who havent failed anyway, instead of becoming any of the other 200 odd leagues in the world that dont have a salary cap. Thats the extent of your argument. My argument is that the league becomes boring like the SPL as one team (Melbourne City) would win the title every year as they can outspend everyone. A rigged comp is boring. So, two teams can out spend everyone in most leagues in the world. And it hasnt killed the leagues or fanbases or become boring. Youre clinging to this one team will dominate theory. (Which isnt true. There is no way it wouldn't spur on mvfc to secure more investment and continue to dominate the comp...or to be bought out by mufc for that matter the same way heart were bought out) but lets entertain your horror story anyway ..... city bring Ronaldo and messi here next season... you think this is bad for football? Engaging 100% of the participants is a bad thing? Getting the entire country salivating and enaged in the game with media going completely bonkers in an orgasmic frenzy will hurt the game? Fkn lol. Im a mv fan and i welcome the competition. If mv are the proverbial mufc and city are the proverbial man city... then bring it on noisy neighbors...football is a competitive beast where there darwinian principle of survival applies. Thats life. Besides how does your out-spending theory apply to Leicester city? Stop. With. The. Fear. Mongering.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering. Bahahaha. Spl... we have bundesliga, la liga, epl, eridivise, serie a......not to mention all the sth american leagues... and let alone our own confed jleague etc......... and you choose spl as your go-to. How convenient. And ridiculous. And indicative of the small bubble you live in, in terms of football. The Bundesliga and La Liga and Eredivise have three teams that can win the title not one. I don't know much about South American leagues so I can't comment about them. The J-League seems to be a competitive league because there isn't one club way richer than the rest. None of the leagues i mentioned have a salary cap. And has it stopped fans watching the league? Has it brought the doomsday scenario that youre spruiking? No it hasnt. Id go with reality.... in the real world....over your speculation and fear mongering. I was talking about leagues which only have one team that can win the title so you missed my point. So have fans stopped watching spl now have they? Youre creating a point out of thin air to suit your narrative. And What is your point exactly? That if we remove tge salary cap then we will become spl, who havent failed anyway, instead of becoming any of the other 200 odd leagues in the world that dont have a salary cap. Thats the extent of your argument. My argument is that the league becomes boring like the SPL as one team (Melbourne City) would win the title every year as they can outspend everyone. A rigged comp is boring. So, two teams can out spend everyone in most leagues in the world. And it hasnt killed the leagues or fanbases or become boring. Youre clinging to this one team will dominate theory. (Which isnt true. There is no way it wouldn't spur on mvfc to secure more investment and continue to dominate the comp...or to be bought out by mufc for that matter the same way heart were bought out) but lets entertain your horror story anyway ..... city bring Ronaldo and messi here next season... you think this is bad for football? Engaging 100% of the participants is a bad thing? Getting the entire country salivating and enaged in the game with media going completely bonkers in an orgasmic frenzy will hurt the game? Fkn lol. Im a mv fan and i welcome the competition. If mv are the proverbial mufc and city are the proverbial man city... then bring it on noisy neighbors...football is a competitive beast where there darwinian principle of survival applies. Thats life. Besides how does your out-spending theory apply to Leicester city? Stop. With. The. Fear. Mongering. So having a comp where any team can beat anyone is boring? You also mention that other teams will spend more. Getting clubs to spend more money than what they have is a recipe for disaster. Look where that got Leeds, Portsmouth and Valencia. The only hope for clubs to compete with City is that they get purchased my mega rich investors. City buying Messi and Ronaldo is a bad example as that will never happen. Leicester is also a bad example as a side like them winning the titlewill only happen once in a few decades.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. No. the marquees are one of the anomalies that i was talking about. You think its smart for one player to be paid more than the entire league if ffa say its ok but not by world standards where there is no cap. Youre contradicting yourself. " No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title."Says who? How the fk would you know? We are in uncchareted territory, with only the mls as a guide, and youre professsing to know the future. Well Every football league in the world begs to differ with you. No one cares about the Scottish Premiership because Celtic win the title by a big margin every year.Youre just speculating and fear mongering. Bahahaha. Spl... we have bundesliga, la liga, epl, eridivise, serie a......not to mention all the sth american leagues... and let alone our own confed jleague etc......... and you choose spl as your go-to. How convenient. And ridiculous. And indicative of the small bubble you live in, in terms of football. The Bundesliga and La Liga and Eredivise have three teams that can win the title not one. I don't know much about South American leagues so I can't comment about them. The J-League seems to be a competitive league because there isn't one club way richer than the rest. None of the leagues i mentioned have a salary cap. And has it stopped fans watching the league? Has it brought the doomsday scenario that youre spruiking? No it hasnt. Id go with reality.... in the real world....over your speculation and fear mongering. I was talking about leagues which only have one team that can win the title so you missed my point. So have fans stopped watching spl now have they? Youre creating a point out of thin air to suit your narrative. And What is your point exactly? That if we remove tge salary cap then we will become spl, who havent failed anyway, instead of becoming any of the other 200 odd leagues in the world that dont have a salary cap. Thats the extent of your argument. My argument is that the league becomes boring like the SPL as one team (Melbourne City) would win the title every year as they can outspend everyone. A rigged comp is boring. So, two teams can out spend everyone in most leagues in the world. And it hasnt killed the leagues or fanbases or become boring. Youre clinging to this one team will dominate theory. (Which isnt true. There is no way it wouldn't spur on mvfc to secure more investment and continue to dominate the comp...or to be bought out by mufc for that matter the same way heart were bought out) but lets entertain your horror story anyway ..... city bring Ronaldo and messi here next season... you think this is bad for football? Engaging 100% of the participants is a bad thing? Getting the entire country salivating and enaged in the game with media going completely bonkers in an orgasmic frenzy will hurt the game? Fkn lol. Im a mv fan and i welcome the competition. If mv are the proverbial mufc and city are the proverbial man city... then bring it on noisy neighbors...football is a competitive beast where there darwinian principle of survival applies. Thats life. Besides how does your out-spending theory apply to Leicester city? Stop. With. The. Fear. Mongering. So having a comp where any team can beat anyone is boring? You also mention that other teams will spend more. Getting clubs to spend more money than what they have is a recipe for disaster. Look where that got Leeds, Portsmouth and Valencia. The only hope for clubs to compete with City is that they get purchased my mega rich investors. City buying Messi and Ronaldo is a bad example as that will never happen. Leicester is also a bad example as a side like them winning the titlewill only happen once in a few decades. Can ccm beat anyone can they? Can wellington? Yeah and Bad examples when i make them....but your selective examples arent bad? Bad examples when they debunk your weak speculation and fear mongering. Look where that got Leeds, Portsmouth and Valencia. So they didnt know how to run a tight ship. They domt belong if they dont have good business acumen... heres a secret.. business that run badly fail. It doesnt mean that we outlaw competition because one or two clubs are shit at business. And look where it got reql madrid, barca, man city, man utd, bayern, juve AND leciester....and the million other success stories of world football... youre trolling with your worst possible case scenario bs. The only hope for clubs to compete with City is that they get purchased my mega rich investors.Welcome to reality. Welcome to a competitive market. And you think that the entire league being paid out of a central pool..with a % of that money being selectively aimed at one club...and having marquees whose wage bill is bigger than that of the entire league is the answer? Delusional. " City buying Messi and Ronaldo is a bad example as that will never happen."Wait you just said they can outspend everyone... make up your fuckinh mind. And youre deflecting my point on that. Weak as piss.. The real question here is though.... Which multi are you ? Ill go with draups.., hes the usual resident troll.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. You have a long way to go to prove to anyone that one team will win the league. The Championship is won by a team of Champions - good players with good team work, not a team of 1 or 2 stars. The stars however will entice the Football purist who don't really care as much about any particular team over and above the sport and its development in this country. Your argument seems to be based on unsolicited opinion, fear-mongering and fear of change itself. Melbourne City have for a long time spent more than any other team and they have not been able to convert this to trophies in the cabinet.
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. You have a long way to go to prove to anyone that one team will win the league. The Championship is won by a team of Champions - good players with good team work, not a team of 1 or 2 stars. The stars however will entice the Football purist who don't really care as much about any particular team over and above the sport and its development in this country. Your argument seems to be based on unsolicited opinion, fear-mongering and fear of change itself. Melbourne City have for a long time spent more than any other team and they have not been able to convert this to trophies in the cabinet.
That's because of the cap. If there was no cap, I highly doubt they would have signed deadwood like Josh Rose or Manny Muscat. If we have no cap then the richest clubs will buy a team of champions which means that smaller clubs won't have the same spending power and therefore cannot regularly compete for the title.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. You have a long way to go to prove to anyone that one team will win the league. The Championship is won by a team of Champions - good players with good team work, not a team of 1 or 2 stars. The stars however will entice the Football purist who don't really care as much about any particular team over and above the sport and its development in this country. Your argument seems to be based on unsolicited opinion, fear-mongering and fear of change itself. Melbourne City have for a long time spent more than any other team and they have not been able to convert this to trophies in the cabinet.
That's because of the cap. If there was no cap, I highly doubt they would have signed deadwood like Josh Rose or Manny Muscat. If we have no cap then the richest clubs will buy a team of champions which means that smaller clubs won't have the same spending power and therefore cannot regularly compete for the title. So why hasnt every league in the world fallen over then? By your logic removing the cap is a doomsday scenario,..its a huge call youre making... so pls explain why your propaganda doesnt play out in the real world?
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. You have a long way to go to prove to anyone that one team will win the league. The Championship is won by a team of Champions - good players with good team work, not a team of 1 or 2 stars. The stars however will entice the Football purist who don't really care as much about any particular team over and above the sport and its development in this country. Your argument seems to be based on unsolicited opinion, fear-mongering and fear of change itself. Melbourne City have for a long time spent more than any other team and they have not been able to convert this to trophies in the cabinet.
That's because of the cap. If there was no cap, I highly doubt they would have signed deadwood like Josh Rose or Manny Muscat. If we have no cap then the richest clubs will buy a team of champions which means that smaller clubs won't have the same spending power and therefore cannot regularly compete for the title. sub007, can you please stop adding your replies in red within my quoted text? It just makes it difficult when others need to quote your response. The clear example here is Spain and the UK. The big spenders have more chance of dominating - Chelsea, Real Madrid and Barcelona. But that didn't stop the likes of Leicester City either. But imagine if the EPL and La Liga were salary capped. The greatness of these clubs will not be there for all to admire. If you can't admire a superior team playing great football and the finesse of these great players because your team is lower on the league because it doesn't have the budget, then you are not a Football fan. You are just a parochial fan of some club who doesn't care about the quality as long as your team wins. for me, it's about the Football, and when my team does beat a big spending team with big budget it will be something to truly savior!
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sub007
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+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. You have a long way to go to prove to anyone that one team will win the league. The Championship is won by a team of Champions - good players with good team work, not a team of 1 or 2 stars. The stars however will entice the Football purist who don't really care as much about any particular team over and above the sport and its development in this country. Your argument seems to be based on unsolicited opinion, fear-mongering and fear of change itself. Melbourne City have for a long time spent more than any other team and they have not been able to convert this to trophies in the cabinet.
That's because of the cap. If there was no cap, I highly doubt they would have signed deadwood like Josh Rose or Manny Muscat. If we have no cap then the richest clubs will buy a team of champions which means that smaller clubs won't have the same spending power and therefore cannot regularly compete for the title. sub007, can you please stop adding your replies in red within my quoted text? It just makes it difficult when others need to quote your response. The clear example here is Spain and the UK. The big spenders have more chance of dominating - Chelsea, Real Madrid and Barcelona. But that didn't stop the likes of Leicester City either. But imagine if the EPL and La Liga were salary capped. The greatness of these clubs will not be there for all to admire. If you can't admire a superior team playing great football and the finesse of these great players because your team is lower on the league because it doesn't have the budget, then you are not a Football fan. You are just a parochial fan of some club who doesn't care about the quality as long as your team wins. for me, it's about the Football, and when my team does beat a big spending team with big budget it will be something to truly savior! I love watching great players and I love a smaller club beating a big spender don't get me wrong but the problem I have is that the teams with the richest owner nearly always win. In my opinion success shouldn't be bought.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. You have a long way to go to prove to anyone that one team will win the league. The Championship is won by a team of Champions - good players with good team work, not a team of 1 or 2 stars. The stars however will entice the Football purist who don't really care as much about any particular team over and above the sport and its development in this country. Your argument seems to be based on unsolicited opinion, fear-mongering and fear of change itself. Melbourne City have for a long time spent more than any other team and they have not been able to convert this to trophies in the cabinet.
That's because of the cap. If there was no cap, I highly doubt they would have signed deadwood like Josh Rose or Manny Muscat. If we have no cap then the richest clubs will buy a team of champions which means that smaller clubs won't have the same spending power and therefore cannot regularly compete for the title. sub007, can you please stop adding your replies in red within my quoted text? It just makes it difficult when others need to quote your response. The clear example here is Spain and the UK. The big spenders have more chance of dominating - Chelsea, Real Madrid and Barcelona. But that didn't stop the likes of Leicester City either. But imagine if the EPL and La Liga were salary capped. The greatness of these clubs will not be there for all to admire. If you can't admire a superior team playing great football and the finesse of these great players because your team is lower on the league because it doesn't have the budget, then you are not a Football fan. You are just a parochial fan of some club who doesn't care about the quality as long as your team wins. for me, it's about the Football, and when my team does beat a big spending team with big budget it will be something to truly savior! I love watching great players and I love a smaller club beating a big spender don't get me wrong but the problem I have is that the teams with the richest owner nearly always win. In my opinion success shouldn't be bought. That will not be the case all the time. Yes, the big clubs will win a lot. But they won't be unbeatable.
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aufc_ole
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+x+x+x+xI support abolition of the salary cap as well. basically, let the times that can afford to spend big, do it and recruit some real stars which will raise the standards of Football in this country. That's what the marquee and guest player rule is for.I support one of the teams that can't afford to spend big. But i don't subscribe to the theory that the big spenders will win the championship because they have one or 2 stars in their line-up. So Chelsea and Man City were winning and competing for silverware before they were bought by Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour? It would however peak interest into the A league, raise standards and be a bigger spectacle which I can only support as a person who places the quality of Football over and beyond the team I support. That is what everyone would be doing. we should be looking at ways to grow the sport in this country. No it won't. People aren't going to watch a league where only one team can win the title.
I also support promotion and relegation as well as a second tier competition. You have a long way to go to prove to anyone that one team will win the league. The Championship is won by a team of Champions - good players with good team work, not a team of 1 or 2 stars. The stars however will entice the Football purist who don't really care as much about any particular team over and above the sport and its development in this country. Your argument seems to be based on unsolicited opinion, fear-mongering and fear of change itself. Melbourne City have for a long time spent more than any other team and they have not been able to convert this to trophies in the cabinet.
That's because of the cap. If there was no cap, I highly doubt they would have signed deadwood like Josh Rose or Manny Muscat. If we have no cap then the richest clubs will buy a team of champions which means that smaller clubs won't have the same spending power and therefore cannot regularly compete for the title. Not sure of the reasoning there
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Gruen
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If the salary cap is removed are all the owners going to stay around when the price of owning a competitive team suddenly sky rockets? Will they stump up more of their own money to keep clubs a float? Will they be able to raise more money due to the increase in the quality of the top of the league that is able to buy better players?
The salary cap certainly does punish success, both on and off the field, that is part of what it is designed to do. The salary cap also rewards clubs in the short term who are able to recruit well, find talent on the cheap. It can reward teams that can develop young talent. However without the salary cap it might force those without the financial resources to get even better at recruiting and developing talent, provided the clubs still exist.
I am too stupid to fully understand the ramifications of removing the salary cap on the survival of less financially well off clubs but removing the cap without being sure the competition does not lose clubs would be a huge mistake.
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TheSelectFew
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+xIf the salary cap is removed are all the owners going to stay around when the price of owning a competitive team suddenly sky rockets? Will they stump up more of their own money to keep clubs a float? Will they be able to raise more money due to the increase in the quality of the top of the league that is able to buy better players? The salary cap certainly does punish success, both on and off the field, that is part of what it is designed to do. The salary cap also rewards clubs in the short term who are able to recruit well, find talent on the cheap. It can reward teams that can develop young talent. However without the salary cap it might force those without the financial resources to get even better at recruiting and developing talent, provided the clubs still exist. I am too stupid to fully understand the ramifications of removing the salary cap on the survival of less financially well off clubs but removing the cap without being sure the competition does not lose clubs would be a huge mistake. Is there anything concrete in your argument or are you just going to create strawmen arguments and hypothericals. We have clear cases you can refer to yet choose not to.
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mouflonrouge
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+xIf the salary cap is removed are all the owners going to stay around when the price of owning a competitive team suddenly sky rockets? Will they stump up more of their own money to keep clubs a float? Will they be able to raise more money due to the increase in the quality of the top of the league that is able to buy better players? The salary cap certainly does punish success, both on and off the field, that is part of what it is designed to do. The salary cap also rewards clubs in the short term who are able to recruit well, find talent on the cheap. It can reward teams that can develop young talent. However without the salary cap it might force those without the financial resources to get even better at recruiting and developing talent, provided the clubs still exist. I am too stupid to fully understand the ramifications of removing the salary cap on the survival of less financially well off clubs but removing the cap without being sure the competition does not lose clubs would be a huge mistake. You seem to imply that club owners will not somehow find a way to survive in the league. This is more fear mongering and as you can see from dozens of leagues around the world that do not have a salary cap, the sky has not caved in. On the contrary, the other teams remain competitive and survive. Abolition of salary cap will just mean that about 4 to 5 teams will be dominant but it will not necessarily translate to trophies as it is unlikely that teams like Melbourne City or Melbourne Victory will just open the purse strings without engaging proper business cost evaluation processes. No team or business person will just throw away their money. It could however help the league to recruit proper real Football Stars rather than a few has beens. Imagine the draw card and the media interest for one, and the other teams would be eager to play against them on the same field. It's inspiring and the quality of our game will inevitably rise and our young players will improve too. It's a win for every single club and the league in its entirety. Far more important than the CCM winning the league which they could still do provided they recruit well and play as a cohesive unit with great team play and chemistry.
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mcjules
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+x It could however help the league to recruit proper real Football Stars rather than a few has beens. Imagine the draw card and the media interest for one, and the other teams would be eager to play against them on the same field. It's inspiring and the quality of our game will inevitably rise and our young players will improve too.
I don't agree with any of your post sorry but I'm curious why we'll be able to get proper real Football Stars without a cap when clubs could sign them now as marquees?
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x It could however help the league to recruit proper real Football Stars rather than a few has beens. Imagine the draw card and the media interest for one, and the other teams would be eager to play against them on the same field. It's inspiring and the quality of our game will inevitably rise and our young players will improve too.
I don't agree with any of your post sorry but I'm curious why we'll be able to get proper real Football Stars without a cap when clubs could sign them now as marquees? No they can't. They have to use allocated funds from what is called a marquee fund. that is capped as well. I am not an expert at how it works, but no team in the A league is able to recruit a big name star from Europe or South America, because the funds are just clearly not there. If however, there were no limitations, the likes of Melbourne City and a few others could potentially recruit real marquees rather than some has beens which are past their best.
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Gruen
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+x+xIf the salary cap is removed are all the owners going to stay around when the price of owning a competitive team suddenly sky rockets? Will they stump up more of their own money to keep clubs a float? Will they be able to raise more money due to the increase in the quality of the top of the league that is able to buy better players? The salary cap certainly does punish success, both on and off the field, that is part of what it is designed to do. The salary cap also rewards clubs in the short term who are able to recruit well, find talent on the cheap. It can reward teams that can develop young talent. However without the salary cap it might force those without the financial resources to get even better at recruiting and developing talent, provided the clubs still exist. I am too stupid to fully understand the ramifications of removing the salary cap on the survival of less financially well off clubs but removing the cap without being sure the competition does not lose clubs would be a huge mistake. You seem to imply that club owners will not somehow find a way to survive in the league. This is more fear mongering and as you can see from dozens of leagues around the world that do not have a salary cap, the sky has not caved in. On the contrary, the other teams remain competitive and survive. Abolition of salary cap will just mean that about 4 to 5 teams will be dominant but it will not necessarily translate to trophies as it is unlikely that teams like Melbourne City or Melbourne Victory will just open the purse strings without engaging proper business cost evaluation processes. No team or business person will just throw away their money. It could however help the league to recruit proper real Football Stars rather than a few has beens. Imagine the draw card and the media interest for one, and the other teams would be eager to play against them on the same field. It's inspiring and the quality of our game will inevitably rise and our young players will improve too. It's a win for every single club and the league in its entirety. Far more important than the CCM winning the league which they could still do provided they recruit well and play as a cohesive unit with great team play and chemistry. I am not implying anything and I am not trying to argue for a salary cap.
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HortoMagiko
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+xIf the salary cap is removed are all the owners going to stay around when the price of owning a competitive team suddenly sky rockets? Will they stump up more of their own money to keep clubs a float? Will they be able to raise more money due to the increase in the quality of the top of the league that is able to buy better players? The salary cap certainly does punish success, both on and off the field, that is part of what it is designed to do. The salary cap also rewards clubs in the short term who are able to recruit well, find talent on the cheap. It can reward teams that can develop young talent. However without the salary cap it might force those without the financial resources to get even better at recruiting and developing talent, provided the clubs still exist. I am too stupid to fully understand the ramifications of removing the salary cap on the survival of less financially well off clubs but removing the cap without being sure the competition does not lose clubs would be a huge mistake. You just need to look at the rammifications of having the salary cap. You dont need to look at the "rammifications", as it were, of removing a rule that didn't belong there in the first place.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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Gruen
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+x+xIf the salary cap is removed are all the owners going to stay around when the price of owning a competitive team suddenly sky rockets? Will they stump up more of their own money to keep clubs a float? Will they be able to raise more money due to the increase in the quality of the top of the league that is able to buy better players? The salary cap certainly does punish success, both on and off the field, that is part of what it is designed to do. The salary cap also rewards clubs in the short term who are able to recruit well, find talent on the cheap. It can reward teams that can develop young talent. However without the salary cap it might force those without the financial resources to get even better at recruiting and developing talent, provided the clubs still exist. I am too stupid to fully understand the ramifications of removing the salary cap on the survival of less financially well off clubs but removing the cap without being sure the competition does not lose clubs would be a huge mistake. You just need to look at the rammifications of having the salary cap. You dont need to look at the "rammifications", as it were, of removing a rule that didn't belong there in the first place. Changing a rule, any rule, without looking at what effect that change will have is beyond stupid.
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RedFunk
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Horto ruining another thread I see, should be banned imo. :Whistling:
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HortoMagiko
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+xHorto ruining another thread I see, should be banned imo. :Whistling: You should be banned from procreation.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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RedFunk
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+x+xHorto ruining another thread I see, should be banned imo. :Whistling: You should be banned from procreation. :kiss:
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Gruen
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Is there any football league in the world that has gone from being a salary capped league to being a non salary capped league?
It is obvious there are a large number leagues that exist successfully without a salary cap and probably the A-league could be one as well, but the transition would need to be done carefully so that clubs don't fall over. I have no idea how likely it is that clubs would fall over but it needs to be determined. Are Griffin and co or Sage or even the City group going to view the changed circumstances and possible higher costs of a club and decide that perhaps they do not want to be involved?
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HortoMagiko
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+xIs there any football league in the world that has gone from being a salary capped league to being a non salary capped league?It is obvious there are a large number leagues that exist successfully without a salary cap and probably the A-league could be one as well, but the transition would need to be done carefully so that clubs don't fall over. I have no idea how likely it is that clubs would fall over but it needs to be determined. Are Griffin and co or Sage or even the City group going to view the changed circumstances and possible higher costs of a club and decide that perhaps they do not want to be involved? No. And think about what youre saying.... clubs will have their shackles removed and they wont be happy about it?
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mcjules
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+xIs there any football league in the world that has gone from being a salary capped league to being a non salary capped league? It is obvious there are a large number leagues that exist successfully without a salary cap and probably the A-league could be one as well, but the transition would need to be done carefully so that clubs don't fall over. I have no idea how likely it is that clubs would fall over but it needs to be determined. Are Griffin and co or Sage or even the City group going to view the changed circumstances and possible higher costs of a club and decide that perhaps they do not want to be involved? Not that I'm aware of but it's a great question. We know our owners are supportive of a cap and aren't that happy with the continuous relaxing of the cap that's only helping the 4 big city teams. Perhaps one or two club owners who think they can benefit from it in terms of on-field success might like the idea of scrapping the cap. I wouldn't be surprised if none are that enthusiastic about scrapping it entirely. There's a reason why we have the league model we have at the moment and that's that it maximises revenues for the whole league. This hasn't gone unnoticed in Europe either and this super league that the big clubs want is basically a copy of the American league models. As long as the cap is set within reasonable bounds, not too high and not too low, we're really not losing much by having it and we're gaining a lot in other ways.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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mouflonrouge
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+xIs there any football league in the world that has gone from being a salary capped league to being a non salary capped league? It is obvious there are a large number leagues that exist successfully without a salary cap and probably the A-league could be one as well, but the transition would need to be done carefully so that clubs don't fall over. I have no idea how likely it is that clubs would fall over but it needs to be determined. Are Griffin and co or Sage or even the City group going to view the changed circumstances and possible higher costs of a club and decide that perhaps they do not want to be involved? Higher costs would probably also translate to more TV Rights provided there were some draw card players recruited by the likes of city, MVFC, Sydney and WSW. It's all commercialism. No one can honestly tell how it will pan out but in theory, the league should improve with better quality players and as such my commercial money which can be used to prop up the bottom end of town more.
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hames_jetfield
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1. I agree with the general comments on that the salary cap does punish success and how it punishes it. 2. @ McJules Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything.
That's already happening with the cap with City taking Adelaide's and Mariners' players who would otherwise be starting. Second, there's already a maximum player limit. Third, it is no good for City if they basically pay disgruntled players to not play as it will create discontent within the playing group which might necessitate the PFA and FFA stepping in.
3. @sub007 The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club.
I accept your point but first you are assuming MV, SFC, WSW and even NJ have absolutely no resources to challenge MC. CFG are already making a loss on MC and I doubt without a cap CFG would raise spending significantly as Australia is a small market compared to England, Japan, US and and there is not enough of a financial incentive from the AFC Champions League to make it worth outspending all rivals and it currently looks like it will remain the same for the foreseeable future.
Second, with a cap Brisbane and MVFC have the most trophies this decade. WSW have made the finals three times, more than Perth, CC, NJ, WP, MC as well. NJ also haven't even made the finals since 2010 while having two stints with billionaire owners. SFC post-title have been up and down.
Currently, Sydney FC are running away with the title with MV then ahead of the rest, all with a cap.
The point is hierarchies have already formed in a capped league where this was not meant to be possible.
4. Can we all at least admit, with crowd attendances and TV ratings stagnating, that something needs to be done to get out of this malaise for which abolishing the salary cap might be a potential solution?
5. Lastly, would everybody be open to say the FFA temporarily abolishing the cap a few years down the track with whatever the maximum payment still given to the clubs for player salaries, for a period of say two seasons. Would everyone be open to this as we would at least be able to see what would happen if the cap was abolished and then assess its successes and failures?
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HortoMagiko
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+x1. I agree with the general comments on that the salary cap does punish success and how it punishes it. 2. @ McJules Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything.
That's already happening with the cap with City taking Adelaide's and Mariners' players who would otherwise be starting. Second, there's already a maximum player limit. Third, it is no good for City if they basically pay disgruntled players to not play as it will create discontent within the playing group which might necessitate the PFA and FFA stepping in.
3. @sub007 The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club.
I accept your point but first you are assuming MV, SFC, WSW and even NJ have absolutely no resources to challenge MC. CFG are already making a loss on MC and I doubt without a cap CFG would raise spending significantly as Australia is a small market compared to England, Japan, US and and there is not enough of a financial incentive from the AFC Champions League to make it worth outspending all rivals and it currently looks like it will remain the same for the foreseeable future.
Second, with a cap Brisbane and MVFC have the most trophies this decade. WSW have made the finals three times, more than Perth, CC, NJ, WP, MC as well. NJ also haven't even made the finals since 2010 while having two stints with billionaire owners. SFC post-title have been up and down.
Currently, Sydney FC are running away with the title with MV then ahead of the rest, all with a cap.
The point is hierarchies have already formed in a capped league where this was not meant to be possible.
4. Can we all at least admit, with crowd attendances and TV ratings stagnating, that something needs to be done to get out of this malaise for which abolishing the salary cap might be a potential solution?
5. Lastly, would everybody be open to say the FFA temporarily abolishing the cap a few years down the track with whatever the maximum payment still given to the clubs for player salaries, for a period of say two seasons. Would everyone be open to this as we would at least be able to see what would happen if the cap was abolished and then assess its successes and failures? Good point about jets, james. Remove the cap and unleash the novocastrians! Mcfc dominating the league pffft. One martin lee begs to differ.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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mcjules
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+x1. I agree with the general comments on that the salary cap does punish success and how it punishes it. 2. @ McJules Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything.
That's already happening with the cap with City taking Adelaide's and Mariners' players who would otherwise be starting. Second, there's already a maximum player limit. Third, it is no good for City if they basically pay disgruntled players to not play as it will create discontent within the playing group which might necessitate the PFA and FFA stepping in.
3. @sub007 The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club.
I accept your point but first you are assuming MV, SFC, WSW and even NJ have absolutely no resources to challenge MC. CFG are already making a loss on MC and I doubt without a cap CFG would raise spending significantly as Australia is a small market compared to England, Japan, US and and there is not enough of a financial incentive from the AFC Champions League to make it worth outspending all rivals and it currently looks like it will remain the same for the foreseeable future.
Second, with a cap Brisbane and MVFC have the most trophies this decade. WSW have made the finals three times, more than Perth, CC, NJ, WP, MC as well. NJ also haven't even made the finals since 2010 while having two stints with billionaire owners. SFC post-title have been up and down.
Currently, Sydney FC are running away with the title with MV then ahead of the rest, all with a cap.
The point is hierarchies have already formed in a capped league where this was not meant to be possible.
4. Can we all at least admit, with crowd attendances and TV ratings stagnating, that something needs to be done to get out of this malaise for which abolishing the salary cap might be a potential solution?
5. Lastly, would everybody be open to say the FFA temporarily abolishing the cap a few years down the track with whatever the maximum payment still given to the clubs for player salaries, for a period of say two seasons. Would everyone be open to this as we would at least be able to see what would happen if the cap was abolished and then assess its successes and failures? 2. They're limited by the cap at the moment. There's reports that City have approached half of our squad (experienced players like Galekovic and McGowan). Now clearly at the moment they can't take them all because of the cap but if it wasn't there? Payout the duds they have in there now and bob's your uncle. 3. Over the history of the comp we've had 8 different teams win trophies (6 champions, 6 premiers and 3 FFA Cup winners). The only two current teams that haven't won in the A-League era are Perth Glory and Wellington. Perth has made an A-League grand final and 2 FFA Cup finals. Of course there's going to be some teams more successful than others, no one thought it was going to be any different. The cap does mean that most teams have enough quality to challenge any team on any particular day. This makes the league exciting. However over the course of the season things such as coaching quality, training facilities and other factors play a part. With bigger discrepancies in squad qualities this becomes less important. 4. Sure something needs to be done. Marquee fund and actually bringing in name players with the cap exemption spots would do the trick far better. 5. If you open it for 2 years, teams will still be restricted by the cap as it will be coming back in. Trialling such a thing really isn't necessary, keep increasing the salary cap inline with club revenues and we'll be fine.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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hames_jetfield
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+x+x1. I agree with the general comments on that the salary cap does punish success and how it punishes it. 2. @ McJules Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything.
That's already happening with the cap with City taking Adelaide's and Mariners' players who would otherwise be starting. Second, there's already a maximum player limit. Third, it is no good for City if they basically pay disgruntled players to not play as it will create discontent within the playing group which might necessitate the PFA and FFA stepping in.
3. @sub007 The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club.
I accept your point but first you are assuming MV, SFC, WSW and even NJ have absolutely no resources to challenge MC. CFG are already making a loss on MC and I doubt without a cap CFG would raise spending significantly as Australia is a small market compared to England, Japan, US and and there is not enough of a financial incentive from the AFC Champions League to make it worth outspending all rivals and it currently looks like it will remain the same for the foreseeable future.
Second, with a cap Brisbane and MVFC have the most trophies this decade. WSW have made the finals three times, more than Perth, CC, NJ, WP, MC as well. NJ also haven't even made the finals since 2010 while having two stints with billionaire owners. SFC post-title have been up and down.
Currently, Sydney FC are running away with the title with MV then ahead of the rest, all with a cap.
The point is hierarchies have already formed in a capped league where this was not meant to be possible.
4. Can we all at least admit, with crowd attendances and TV ratings stagnating, that something needs to be done to get out of this malaise for which abolishing the salary cap might be a potential solution?
5. Lastly, would everybody be open to say the FFA temporarily abolishing the cap a few years down the track with whatever the maximum payment still given to the clubs for player salaries, for a period of say two seasons. Would everyone be open to this as we would at least be able to see what would happen if the cap was abolished and then assess its successes and failures? 2. They're limited by the cap at the moment. There's reports that City have approached half of our squad (experienced players like Galekovic and McGowan). Now clearly at the moment they can't take them all because of the cap but if it wasn't there? Payout the duds they have in there now and bob's your uncle. 3. Over the history of the comp we've had 8 different teams win trophies (6 champions, 6 premiers and 3 FFA Cup winners). The only two current teams that haven't won in the A-League era are Perth Glory and Wellington. Perth has made an A-League grand final and 2 FFA Cup finals. Of course there's going to be some teams more successful than others, no one thought it was going to be any different. The cap does mean that most teams have enough quality to challenge any team on any particular day. This makes the league exciting. However over the course of the season things such as coaching quality, training facilities and other factors play a part. With bigger discrepancies in squad qualities this becomes less important. 4. Sure something needs to be done. Marquee fund and actually bringing in name players with the cap exemption spots would do the trick far better. 5. If you open it for 2 years, teams will still be restricted by the cap as it will be coming back in. Trialling such a thing really isn't necessary, keep increasing the salary cap inline with club revenues and we'll be fine. 2. They're going to take half your squad and replace half their squad even though their squad is still so much better? Again, with a maximum of 23 players, I think it is very unlikely City will or have the ability to hoard players much like Chelsea does. At some point, players are going to want to play and if they can't at City then they will become disgruntled and negatively effect the playing group. When you have more players who are starters than squaddies then this will create disharmony. Further, if this simply becomes the case at City, they might find they will lose out on playing talent as there are limited supply of A-League quality players and plenty of substitutes for Melbourne City or any other club that acts in this way. 3. But teams like NJ, CCM, WP don't have the quality even under the cap. Without a salary cap, it actively incentivises them to spend and spend effectively to compete in the absence of relegation. These teams have been down at the bottom of the table for quite a while - who is watching the league for them?
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mcjules
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+x+x+x1. I agree with the general comments on that the salary cap does punish success and how it punishes it. 2. @ McJules Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything.
That's already happening with the cap with City taking Adelaide's and Mariners' players who would otherwise be starting. Second, there's already a maximum player limit. Third, it is no good for City if they basically pay disgruntled players to not play as it will create discontent within the playing group which might necessitate the PFA and FFA stepping in.
3. @sub007 The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club.
I accept your point but first you are assuming MV, SFC, WSW and even NJ have absolutely no resources to challenge MC. CFG are already making a loss on MC and I doubt without a cap CFG would raise spending significantly as Australia is a small market compared to England, Japan, US and and there is not enough of a financial incentive from the AFC Champions League to make it worth outspending all rivals and it currently looks like it will remain the same for the foreseeable future.
Second, with a cap Brisbane and MVFC have the most trophies this decade. WSW have made the finals three times, more than Perth, CC, NJ, WP, MC as well. NJ also haven't even made the finals since 2010 while having two stints with billionaire owners. SFC post-title have been up and down.
Currently, Sydney FC are running away with the title with MV then ahead of the rest, all with a cap.
The point is hierarchies have already formed in a capped league where this was not meant to be possible.
4. Can we all at least admit, with crowd attendances and TV ratings stagnating, that something needs to be done to get out of this malaise for which abolishing the salary cap might be a potential solution?
5. Lastly, would everybody be open to say the FFA temporarily abolishing the cap a few years down the track with whatever the maximum payment still given to the clubs for player salaries, for a period of say two seasons. Would everyone be open to this as we would at least be able to see what would happen if the cap was abolished and then assess its successes and failures? 2. They're limited by the cap at the moment. There's reports that City have approached half of our squad (experienced players like Galekovic and McGowan). Now clearly at the moment they can't take them all because of the cap but if it wasn't there? Payout the duds they have in there now and bob's your uncle. 3. Over the history of the comp we've had 8 different teams win trophies (6 champions, 6 premiers and 3 FFA Cup winners). The only two current teams that haven't won in the A-League era are Perth Glory and Wellington. Perth has made an A-League grand final and 2 FFA Cup finals. Of course there's going to be some teams more successful than others, no one thought it was going to be any different. The cap does mean that most teams have enough quality to challenge any team on any particular day. This makes the league exciting. However over the course of the season things such as coaching quality, training facilities and other factors play a part. With bigger discrepancies in squad qualities this becomes less important. 4. Sure something needs to be done. Marquee fund and actually bringing in name players with the cap exemption spots would do the trick far better. 5. If you open it for 2 years, teams will still be restricted by the cap as it will be coming back in. Trialling such a thing really isn't necessary, keep increasing the salary cap inline with club revenues and we'll be fine. 2. They're going to take half your squad and replace half their squad even though their squad is still so much better? Again, with a maximum of 23 players, I think it is very unlikely City will or have the ability to hoard players much like Chelsea does. At some point, players are going to want to play and if they can't at City then they will become disgruntled and negatively effect the playing group. When you have more players who are starters than squaddies then this will create disharmony. Further, if this simply becomes the case at City, they might find they will lose out on playing talent as there are limited supply of A-League quality players and plenty of substitutes for Melbourne City or any other club that acts in this way. 3. But teams like NJ, CCM, WP don't have the quality even under the cap. Without a salary cap, it actively incentivises them to spend and spend effectively to compete in the absence of relegation. These teams have been down at the bottom of the table for quite a while - who is watching the league for them? 2. Their squad isn't so much better at the moment. It would be without a cap though. It's not just about city anyway but 3 or 4 teams with deeper pockets than the rest. 3. There's reasons for those 3 teams lacking quality, none of them are to do with the cap and none of their situations would be improved from a performance perspective (maybe you could argue they could spend less and be even shitter but be better off financially for the owners). With better management, these 3 teams fortunes could turn. I think Newcastle is looking most likely of those 3 for it to happen to first.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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hames_jetfield
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+x+x+x+x1. I agree with the general comments on that the salary cap does punish success and how it punishes it. 2. @ McJules Where it's damaging is that City and the others will take the good Australian players from the clubs with a smaller wage bill. A bunch of inexperienced kids and NPL players are going to have a tough time being "organised" enough to win anything.
That's already happening with the cap with City taking Adelaide's and Mariners' players who would otherwise be starting. Second, there's already a maximum player limit. Third, it is no good for City if they basically pay disgruntled players to not play as it will create discontent within the playing group which might necessitate the PFA and FFA stepping in.
3. @sub007 The cap keeps the competition even and interesting. People aren't going to want to watch a league where only Melbourne City will win the league every year because they have the most money, especially since they are a small club.
I accept your point but first you are assuming MV, SFC, WSW and even NJ have absolutely no resources to challenge MC. CFG are already making a loss on MC and I doubt without a cap CFG would raise spending significantly as Australia is a small market compared to England, Japan, US and and there is not enough of a financial incentive from the AFC Champions League to make it worth outspending all rivals and it currently looks like it will remain the same for the foreseeable future.
Second, with a cap Brisbane and MVFC have the most trophies this decade. WSW have made the finals three times, more than Perth, CC, NJ, WP, MC as well. NJ also haven't even made the finals since 2010 while having two stints with billionaire owners. SFC post-title have been up and down.
Currently, Sydney FC are running away with the title with MV then ahead of the rest, all with a cap.
The point is hierarchies have already formed in a capped league where this was not meant to be possible.
4. Can we all at least admit, with crowd attendances and TV ratings stagnating, that something needs to be done to get out of this malaise for which abolishing the salary cap might be a potential solution?
5. Lastly, would everybody be open to say the FFA temporarily abolishing the cap a few years down the track with whatever the maximum payment still given to the clubs for player salaries, for a period of say two seasons. Would everyone be open to this as we would at least be able to see what would happen if the cap was abolished and then assess its successes and failures? 2. They're limited by the cap at the moment. There's reports that City have approached half of our squad (experienced players like Galekovic and McGowan). Now clearly at the moment they can't take them all because of the cap but if it wasn't there? Payout the duds they have in there now and bob's your uncle. 3. Over the history of the comp we've had 8 different teams win trophies (6 champions, 6 premiers and 3 FFA Cup winners). The only two current teams that haven't won in the A-League era are Perth Glory and Wellington. Perth has made an A-League grand final and 2 FFA Cup finals. Of course there's going to be some teams more successful than others, no one thought it was going to be any different. The cap does mean that most teams have enough quality to challenge any team on any particular day. This makes the league exciting. However over the course of the season things such as coaching quality, training facilities and other factors play a part. With bigger discrepancies in squad qualities this becomes less important. 4. Sure something needs to be done. Marquee fund and actually bringing in name players with the cap exemption spots would do the trick far better. 5. If you open it for 2 years, teams will still be restricted by the cap as it will be coming back in. Trialling such a thing really isn't necessary, keep increasing the salary cap inline with club revenues and we'll be fine. 2. They're going to take half your squad and replace half their squad even though their squad is still so much better? Again, with a maximum of 23 players, I think it is very unlikely City will or have the ability to hoard players much like Chelsea does. At some point, players are going to want to play and if they can't at City then they will become disgruntled and negatively effect the playing group. When you have more players who are starters than squaddies then this will create disharmony. Further, if this simply becomes the case at City, they might find they will lose out on playing talent as there are limited supply of A-League quality players and plenty of substitutes for Melbourne City or any other club that acts in this way. 3. But teams like NJ, CCM, WP don't have the quality even under the cap. Without a salary cap, it actively incentivises them to spend and spend effectively to compete in the absence of relegation. These teams have been down at the bottom of the table for quite a while - who is watching the league for them? 2. Their squad isn't so much better at the moment. It would be without a cap though. It's not just about city anyway but 3 or 4 teams with deeper pockets than the rest. 3. There's reasons for those 3 teams lacking quality, none of them are to do with the cap and none of their situations would be improved from a performance perspective (maybe you could argue they could spend less and be even shitter but be better off financially for the owners). With better management, these 3 teams fortunes could turn. I think Newcastle is looking most likely of those 3 for it to happen to first. 2. Again, maximum places. And we always hear about good players who don't play kicking up a stink in their squads, if not players like James Rodriguez and Joe Hart then Rhys Williams and Kerem Bulut here. Players who want to play will simply disrupt an otherwise functional team environment. Further, if I am a player that is good enough to start at any A-League and I have ambitions to represent the Socceroos and I don't play because whichever club/s have stacked their rosters with talent, then I will seek a move even to a loser club like CCM much like Connor Pain and Scott Galloway or Jamie Maclaren have all done. 3.There's nothing incentivising them to improve now. Abolishing the salary cap would get them to move or risk being left behind for a long time.
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aussie scott21
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Mcj Your "the players want to go to better leagues" is unrealistic. It's about money. Otherwise we wouldn't have players in SEAsia who are good enough for the A-League
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aussie scott21
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Tim Cahill Melbourne City news: Lack of domestic transfer system a roadblock to A-League moveStaff writers, News Corp Australia MARK Bosnich doesn’t see a problem with Tim Cahill leaving Melbourne City to secure more game time, but the lack of an domestic transfer system is a roadblock for move within the A-League. Cahill wants more minutes ahead of the 2018 World Cup and the 37-year-old was reportedly set for showdown talks with City coach Warren Joyce to discuss his role at the club. The striker made it clear he’s open to leaving the City if more playing opportunities don’t materialise, but a move within Australia would prove difficult. With no domestic transfer or loan system, the only way players can move between A-League teams is through a loophole where clubs simultaneously release players off their rosters so they can trade places - for example Andrew Redmayne and Vedran Janjetovic swapping Sydney teams last season. Former Socceroo Bosnich has been calling for a domestic transfer system and believes the lack of one is the biggest roadblock to Cahill finding a new club in Australia. But that doesn’t mean City will stop the striker leaving. “They have to sit down face-to-face and talk it through,” Bosnich told Fox Sports’ Shootout. LATEST NEWS: Explosive new claims to back up Cahill bombshell BURNING Qs: Cahill’s ‘power play’ to risk City season, WC legacy CAHILL’S OPTIONS: Clubs that could get Roo in A-League loophole “If it comes to the fact that there can be no agreement... We’re talking about the biggest club owners in the world. They won’t have a problem finding a replacement. “Timmy’s going to be focusing on playing at the World Cup. He wants to be one of the very few players to be playing in four World Cups. “If it’s a problem for him, Tim, from his side, I don’t see a problem with for him to go. I don’t really see Melbourne City standing in his way. “This underlines my point why we should have domestic transfer system or at least loan system.” He added: “They’re [City] doing fine in my opinion... but you don’t want something like this completely taking away from what’s on the park.” Joyce has refused to comment on speculation that Cahill’s unhappy with his role at City, but former Socceroos John Kosmina and Ned Zelic don’t have a problem with the coach not picking the striker. “I agreed with Warren Joyce to a certain extent,” said Zelic. “His comments, the fact that it’s been difficult for him as well, the fact that Timmy has been away as well and for him to put a team out that he obviously believes in and can do the job for the team. “That’s his job - to pretty much get to the core of this team’s strengths.” He added: “They’ve got incredible depth and he’s got a tough job on his hands to put the best team.” Kosmina said: “You can’t have picked Timmy in any of these games.” “He was in and out of the camp away with the Socceroos.” He added: “I think Warren Joyce has been putting his stamp on the squad.”
Tim Cahill Melbourne City news: Lack of domestic transfer system a roadblock to A-League move
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TheSelectFew
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Bozza needs to steer the ship, not Lowy or Gallop.
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azzaMVFC
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+xBozza needs to steer the ship, not Lowy or Gallop. That would be sure as hell interesting.
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kaufusi
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The lack of transfers but especially loans in the HAL.
One of the biggest impediments for young players is the lack of a loan system. The top clubs often have the best young talent, but as they're strong clubs their first team is already full of quality players so youth often struggles for a go. Being able to loan younger players to lower clubs helps both the other club and the parent club who gets a more experienced player in return.
Win win, and the mind boggles why there's no loan system in place.
Transfers fees would also help when bigger clubs want the players of smaller clubs so they can't bully others around and smaller clubs get rewarded for good recruitment.
Absolutely no reason not to have these
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aussie scott21
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THE BIG CHANGE A-LEAGUE MUST MAKE: BOZZA FORMER Socceroo Mark Bosnich says the A-League needs to introduce a loan system and a transfer system in between clubs. Citing the example of Wanderers coach Josep Gombau, who came in after Tony Popovic had already built a squad, Bosnich said the game was being “short-changed” by the lack of transfers and loans between clubs. Wanderers players show their dejection. (Photo by Brett Hemmings/Getty Images) Wanderers players show their dejection. (Photo by Brett Hemmings/Getty Images)Picture: Getty Images “Things have got to change. In my opinion, the … players, managers (and) supporters are being short-changed by the system that’s in place,” he said. “Because could you imagine the excitement that we’d have now if — for example, we’re coming up to January and people would be speculating ‘who could go here, who could go there?’ “Seriously, I know everyone is trying hard but forget about your Star Wars Rounds … this is more important for the game: install a transfer system, install a loan system — because long term, this is really going to help the game. “Those little things, those little gimmicks, what they are, okay you’re trying your best, no problem. But for me, they’re not going to help the game long-term. “This will and this needs to be done yesterday. Because a new manager comes in … (and) he has to stay with those players and it’s not good.” Bosnich said the Wanderers’ struggles on Saturday night against Sydney FC, when they lost 5-0, demonstrated the need for change. “You see those poor boys from Wanderers yesterday being played out of position and this that and the other,” he said. “It just short-changes everyone and it’s not good for the competition when one of your biggest brands in terms of the Western Sydney Wanderers are not doing well. “It’s not good when your big teams in the competition are not doing well.” https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/soccer/shootout-how-aaron-mooy-is-lifting-huddersfield-town-issue-confronting-melbourne-victory-ng-11a82589d94f4928c311daa49b72142d
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aussie scott21
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This isn't going to go away or magically stop being talked about until it is remedied.
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huddo
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Remove the cap, sink the league
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bluebird
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+xRemove the cap, sink the league 3 years tops!
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bigpoppa
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Been reading the 'Inverting The Pyramid' book and it really reinforces how over history one tweak, swapping one player out for another, can have a huge positive effect on a sides formation and without certain tweaks we wouldn't have ended up with some of the dominant sides we have throughout history.
Im sure Gombau(and every other coach in our league) knows what he wants and needs to do but the salary cap leaves him hamstrung.
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aussie scott21
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Mark Milligan’s failed transfer to Al-Ahli again shows the problems with A-League salary cap MELBOURNE Victory were within their rights to dig heels in after Saudi Arabian interest, but the Mark Milligan saga is another example of why the salary cap is reaching its expiry date. The Socceroo will line up in the Australia Day clash with Sydney FC after Victory issued a ‘hands off’ warning with coach Kevin Muscat understandably desperate to keep Milligan as they launch twin assaults on the A-League and Asian Champions League. Beyond May the future of Milligan and his young family is unclear, with his contract expiring at the end of the season with James Troisi’s back-ended deal elevating him to marquee status alongside Besart Berisha unless Victory can do some creative accounting. NEXT STAGE: FIFA to return for FFA peace talks SOCCEROOS: FFA in talks with van Gaal Milligan has seen another opportunity pass him by (AAP Image/Joe Castro) Milligan was open to the Al-Ahli move, but he by no means held the club to ransom or threw the toys out of the cot. Victory has rejected several offers for Milligan, including a dream move to Crystal Palace in 2013 that left him shattered having never played in Europe to this day. Victory fans consider the implications of the outdated salary cap — the squad and cap limitations are the reason Dino Djulbic, for instance, came and went after a fortnight before returning to Perth Glory — before labelling Milligan a mercenary. Players union chief John Didulica said the figure of 65 per cent of players coming off contract at the end of this season was too high. “You don’t have Mark actively spruiking himself around Asia saying I desperately need to get out of this contract,’’ Didulica said on FNR. “There’s club throughout Asia that (spend) tens of millions of dollars and have an Asian spot, so he (Milligan) is a sought-after commodity in that market. “Where the urgency is in Mark’s perspective is he’s off contract in four months. If we had a contracting structure in Australia that incentivised longer term deals, that allowed clubs to be more flexible with the way they structured their contracts, you probably won’t have the same volume of players leaving. “The way the salary cap works — where you have these two rigid marquees and everyone else squirrels in under this salary cap — means that you can’t have genuine contracts with players. “If we can build an industry where players can have 2-4 year deals with very clear clauses around when and how players can get released, that level of surety and consistency will ensure we don’t have this washing around of players every transfer window.” http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/a-league/teams/victory/mark-milligans-failed-transfer-to-alahli-again-shows-the-problems-with-aleague-salary-cap/news-story/a02a5398384b4dfad2e9d9b89219f87f
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TheSelectFew
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I'm sure the eff eff aye are solid in their promise of bringing in a transfer system. Sure as any other promise upheld by the Lowy cartel.
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PricklePear
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Who was the Author for that? Dont have an account
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TheSelectFew
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+xWho was the Author for that? Dont have an account David Davutovic
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Bozza1#
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Its just a matter of time but sadly with the way the FFA is atm. It will never happen.
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aussie pride
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Because of the salary cap we will probably see talented imports like Leroy George & Ross McCormack leave our shores due to the squeeze. These are the kind of players that spectators will pay good money to watch light up the league, the kind of players our next gen players can learn off and feed off on the training pitch.
Even if the FFA loosened the shackles a bit and opened it up to 5 players exempt from the cap by next season we would see a rise in quality, longer contract deals which can add weight to on-selling imports to Asian Clubs. You would see Sydney having Adrian, Bobo, Ninkovic, Brilliante & Wilko easily retained whilst also having strong players within the cap. Victory would easily have Milligan, George, Berisha, Troisi signed up long term and with the potential to add much better imports than Sanchez for example for is a depth signing. The Jets would have Vargas, Rodriguez, O'Donovan, Nabbout + 1 more and then the rest of the squad can be maintained and built from.
Imo it's an exciting prospect and something a conservative FFA could realistically do as a 'trial' to see how scrapping the cap would work in an Australian sporting environment.
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bluebird
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+xImo it's an exciting prospect and something a conservative FFA could realistically do as a 'trial' to see how scrapping the cap would work in an Australian sporting environment. It would make more sense to scrap the cap and "trial" any changes that prove to be a problem I seriously don't understand the high level of fear around the salary cap. Removing it will not be the end of the league by any stretch of the imagination
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aussie pride
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+x+xImo it's an exciting prospect and something a conservative FFA could realistically do as a 'trial' to see how scrapping the cap would work in an Australian sporting environment. It would make more sense to scrap the cap and "trial" any changes that prove to be a problem I seriously don't understand the high level of fear around the salary cap. Removing it will not be the end of the league by any stretch of the imagination The FFA & Gallop are the most conservative/unambitious sporting administrators in Australia. While most core fans would love to see it scrapped, i honestly can't see them making any "risky" or drastic changes. These guys are the same lot that hire consultants for everything because they fear on making their own decisions for the game. That's why I see a small change (increasing to 5 players exempt of the cap) as realistic and at least a step towards the ultimate goal, scrapping the cap.
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bluebird
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+x+x+xImo it's an exciting prospect and something a conservative FFA could realistically do as a 'trial' to see how scrapping the cap would work in an Australian sporting environment. It would make more sense to scrap the cap and "trial" any changes that prove to be a problem I seriously don't understand the high level of fear around the salary cap. Removing it will not be the end of the league by any stretch of the imagination The FFA & Gallop are the most conservative/unambitious sporting administrators in Australia. While most core fans would love to see it scrapped, i honestly can't see them making any "risky" or drastic changes. These guys are the same lot that hire consultants for everything because they fear on making their own decisions for the game. That's why I see a small change (increasing to 5 players exempt of the cap) as realistic and at least a step towards the ultimate goal, scrapping the cap. So the answer then is to get rid of Lowy and Gallop Everybody in a position of employment has to be fit for their job and are judged based on deliverables. No sense our code working around people unfit for their job
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AJF
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Some people on here are delusional. Roar couldn't afford to get proper numbers on their jersey's or a second shirt for the ACL game last night yet you think they can afford to go on a spending spree on players wages?
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jlm8695
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+xSome people on here are delusional. Roar couldn't afford to get proper numbers on their jersey's or a second shirt for the ACL game last night yet you think they can afford to go on a spending spree on players wages? Maybe if they weren't forced to spend a set amount of money on player wages they could budget accordingly to be able to provide proper shirt numbers. No salary cap isn't just about allowing clubs to spend more money. It's allowing clubs to spend within their means.
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AJF
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+x+xSome people on here are delusional. Roar couldn't afford to get proper numbers on their jersey's or a second shirt for the ACL game last night yet you think they can afford to go on a spending spree on players wages? Maybe if they weren't forced to spend a set amount of money on player wages they could budget accordingly to be able to provide proper shirt numbers. No salary cap isn't just about allowing clubs to spend more money. It's allowing clubs to spend within their means. So you support removing the cap to allow owners to spend less, cant argue with that logic.
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jlm8695
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+x+x+xSome people on here are delusional. Roar couldn't afford to get proper numbers on their jersey's or a second shirt for the ACL game last night yet you think they can afford to go on a spending spree on players wages? Maybe if they weren't forced to spend a set amount of money on player wages they could budget accordingly to be able to provide proper shirt numbers. No salary cap isn't just about allowing clubs to spend more money. It's allowing clubs to spend within their means. So you support removing the cap to allow owners to spend less. Teams will spend what they can sustain. Ambitious teams can take losses and push to the top, teams with rich owners can ignore losses, teams can become feeder clubs and churn out players for profit, teams can basically be run how they want to be run without the threat of inevitable losses every year preventing them froms tabilising without large cash injections. Basically how football works everywhere. We're not unique.
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AJF
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+x+x+x+xSome people on here are delusional. Roar couldn't afford to get proper numbers on their jersey's or a second shirt for the ACL game last night yet you think they can afford to go on a spending spree on players wages? Maybe if they weren't forced to spend a set amount of money on player wages they could budget accordingly to be able to provide proper shirt numbers. No salary cap isn't just about allowing clubs to spend more money. It's allowing clubs to spend within their means. So you support removing the cap to allow owners to spend less. Teams will spend what they can sustain. Ambitious teams can take losses and push to the top, teams with rich owners can ignore losses, teams can become feeder clubs and churn out players for profit, teams can basically be run how they want to be run without the threat of inevitable losses every year preventing them froms tabilising without large cash injections. Basically how football works everywhere. We're not unique, just horribly managed. So what you are saying is that Roar who iron on their own numbers purchased from Spotlight, cant beat a semi professional team from the Philipines and are currently sitting in 8th, should be allowed to spend even less as their billionaire owners dont give a crap about Aussie football. I am sure Roar fans would be happy.
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P&R will fix it 2.0
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+x+x+x+x+xSome people on here are delusional. Roar couldn't afford to get proper numbers on their jersey's or a second shirt for the ACL game last night yet you think they can afford to go on a spending spree on players wages? Maybe if they weren't forced to spend a set amount of money on player wages they could budget accordingly to be able to provide proper shirt numbers. No salary cap isn't just about allowing clubs to spend more money. It's allowing clubs to spend within their means. So you support removing the cap to allow owners to spend less. Teams will spend what they can sustain. Ambitious teams can take losses and push to the top, teams with rich owners can ignore losses, teams can become feeder clubs and churn out players for profit, teams can basically be run how they want to be run without the threat of inevitable losses every year preventing them froms tabilising without large cash injections. Basically how football works everywhere. We're not unique, just horribly managed. So what you are saying is that Roar who iron on their own numbers purchased from Spotlight, cant beat a semi professional team from the Philipines and are currently sitting in 8th, should be allowed to spend even less as their billionaire owners dont give a crap about Aussie football. I am sure Roar fans would be happy. Where's the $4m loss this year ?
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aufc_ole
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+x+x+x+x+xSome people on here are delusional. Roar couldn't afford to get proper numbers on their jersey's or a second shirt for the ACL game last night yet you think they can afford to go on a spending spree on players wages? Maybe if they weren't forced to spend a set amount of money on player wages they could budget accordingly to be able to provide proper shirt numbers. No salary cap isn't just about allowing clubs to spend more money. It's allowing clubs to spend within their means. So you support removing the cap to allow owners to spend less. Teams will spend what they can sustain. Ambitious teams can take losses and push to the top, teams with rich owners can ignore losses, teams can become feeder clubs and churn out players for profit, teams can basically be run how they want to be run without the threat of inevitable losses every year preventing them froms tabilising without large cash injections. Basically how football works everywhere. We're not unique, just horribly managed. So what you are saying is that Roar who iron on their own numbers purchased from Spotlight, cant beat a semi professional team from the Philipines and are currently sitting in 8th, should be allowed to spend even less as their billionaire owners dont give a crap about Aussie football. I am sure Roar fans would be happy. All this built on the ASSUMPTION the owners would spend less....
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TheSelectFew
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+x+x+xSome people on here are delusional. Roar couldn't afford to get proper numbers on their jersey's or a second shirt for the ACL game last night yet you think they can afford to go on a spending spree on players wages? Maybe if they weren't forced to spend a set amount of money on player wages they could budget accordingly to be able to provide proper shirt numbers. No salary cap isn't just about allowing clubs to spend more money. It's allowing clubs to spend within their means. So you support removing the cap to allow owners to spend less, cant argue with that logic. I am yes.
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bluebird
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+xSome people on here are delusional. Roar couldn't afford to get proper numbers on their jersey's or a second shirt for the ACL game last night yet you think they can afford to go on a spending spree on players wages? More the point they wouldn't have been there if the A League didn't have a salary cap
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P&R will fix it 2.0
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Not having Relegation doesn't punish failure
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AJF
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+xNot having Relegation doesn't punish failure spot on, introduce P/R and then watch the investment across all levels
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someguyjc
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The biggest problem with the cap isn't that it exists, it's the format it takes in this league. All of these exemptions lead to really unbalanced squads and as a result, really inconsistent performances. Having an expensive marquee attacking player and then average mid fielders and defenders means the marquee attacking player is never going to get the consistent service they require. On top of all that, it also leads to the musical chair effect of players moving from club to club purely because they no longer fit within the cap budget. Then there are all these short 1-2 year contracts that are the norm in this league because of the cap, meaning that supporters (especially the kids) can never really get behind a favorite player because said player won't be around long enough. If we must have a cap (which I don't think we do) it should be a set value (eg: $10M) with no exemptions.
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Coverdale
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If the cap was scrapped I’d assume the cba would still be in place and squad size requirements so in reality there would continue to be a minimum spend forced into clubs. Correct?
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someguyjc
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+xIf the cap was scrapped I’d assume the cba would still be in place and squad size requirements so in reality there would continue to be a minimum spend forced into clubs. Correct? Correct, players would need to be paid minimum wage as set out in the CBA. So the salary floor would be whatever the value is, if every player on the squad was on minimum wage.
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Eldar
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It is hard to see the cap remaining given the rate we are being overtaken by nations like The Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand....let alone Japan or Korea. The more the A-League looks like a second rate league and our national players as second rate, the more damage is done.
Beaten by Eldar
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hotrod
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+xIt is hard to see the cap remaining given the rate we are being overtaken by nations like The Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand....let alone Japan or Korea. The more the A-League looks like a second rate league and our national players as second rate, the more damage is done. You do know you are talking about the FFA making this decision?
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sub007
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+xIt is hard to see the cap remaining given the rate we are being overtaken by nations like The Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand....let alone Japan or Korea. The more the A-League looks like a second rate league and our national players as second rate, the more damage is done. You do realise that the Philippines has a salary cap as well right?
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Eldar
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+x+xIt is hard to see the cap remaining given the rate we are being overtaken by nations like The Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand....let alone Japan or Korea. The more the A-League looks like a second rate league and our national players as second rate, the more damage is done. You do realise that the Philippines has a salary cap as well right? Even more embarrassing then. Hopefully we can try and remain competitive with them, if not better than, at least not too far behind. Though, god help us if Indonesia ever gets its shit together.
Beaten by Eldar
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bluebird
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What does a salary cap prevent that the 3+1 rule doesn't?
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sub007
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+xWhat does a salary cap prevent that the 3+1 rule doesn't? That isn't an equalisation measure. Stop pretending that it is.
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bluebird
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+x+xWhat does a salary cap prevent that the 3+1 rule doesn't? That isn't an equalisation measure. Stop pretending that it is. Neither is the Salary Cap This season: Sydney --> Daylight --> Middle table --> Bottom table Last season: Sydney --> Daylight --> Middle table --> Bottom table You have been sold the emperor's new clothes
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HeyItsRobbie
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+x+xWhat does a salary cap prevent that the 3+1 rule doesn't? That isn't an equalisation measure. Stop pretending that it is. its supposed to be, and now because of what Sydney fc is doing, the salary cap is obsolete.
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aussie scott21
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Simon Hill, FOX SPORTS Football in Australia has long attempted to have both, but it’s becoming increasingly clear that one is being compromised by the other. The concept of both quality and equality comes from the other football codes. Share the love, spread the talent out via a salary cap, and you get a competitive league with the very best going head to head against each other each week. It sounds utopian, doesn’t it? Except that in football, there is one tiny flaw. It’s global footprint. Thus, unlike the other codes, the best talent tends to “bleed” out of the local competition and overseas in the chase for better wages, opportunities, or both.  Sydney's struggles continue Greed? No, it’s just the football economy, doing its thing. Players only have a short career, and if they can get better cash in Thailand or Saudi Arabia, then they owe it to themselves, and their families, to take it. The A-League has long been said to have a “soft” salary cap – there are all sorts of exemptions to entice players to come (or stay). But perhaps it’s time the regulations were looked at again – or else we risk diluting the standard of the competition in favour of equality once more. Across Asia, leagues in Japan, China, Korea, the Middle East, are all boosted by imports. They are normally players fans want to see, and while no-one is pretending Australian clubs can match the financial muscle of the Chinese Super League, it remains baffling we make it so hard for clubs to retain their top foreign talent. For example next season, Sydney FC must try to juggle two marquee spots between three players – Bobo, Milos Ninkovic and Adrian Mierzejewski – if they wish to retain the trio. Where does that leave Jordy Buijs? Adrian Mierzejewki (left) and Milos Ninkovic (right). Who will stay?Defenders rarely draw marquee money, so he’s likely to be on his way. Turning 30 later this year, the Dutchman may only have two decent contracts ahead of him. Yet between them, Bobo, Mierzejewski and Ninkovic have scored 39 of Sydney’s 55 goals, while Buijs has been one of the cornerstones of the league’s meanest defence. It was the same story with Brisbane Roar’s back-to-back title winning team, where Thomas Broich and Besart Berisha played crucial parts. Roar lost Berisha to Victory for nothing, thanks to the same restrictive rules – which, in those days, allowed for only one foreign marquee. Sporting excellence is being punished. It’s unfathomable. It’s not just Sydney FC that stand to lose next season. Melbourne Victory have already earmarked James Troisi as one of their marquees for next season – and Besart Berisha is more than likely to be the second. All of which will leave Victory’s standout player, Leroy George, as the odd man out in the equation. He deserves better. Thomas Broich and Besart Berisha were separated. Pic Jono Searle.If George ends up returning overseas, then everyone loses – not least the fans – and while you can lay the blame at Victory’s door in part for pre-empting the marquee spots, this is why, in my opinion, all foreigners must come out of the cap, as a precursor to the removal of the cap entirely. The arguments against are familiar ones. High wages for players who don’t perform is one. But isn’t that always the risk clubs run when signing players, big money or not? Disadvantaging Australian players is another. Perhaps. Which is why I would be in favour of allowing one marquee spot to remain open for Aussies, while also reducing the foreign allocation to 3+1 to fall into line with Asian Champions League rules. What happens with Leroy George if Melbourne Victory have two marquees?Less quantity, more quality – plus more spots available for local players, as we await long-overdue expansion. But now to the crux of the issue: Would the clubs be able to afford it? Some will and some won’t. Some will go for it and others will cut their cloth accordingly. Sound familiar? Yes, that’s what happens now under our salary capped league. Central Coast Mariners have just three foreign players on their books at present, and no marquees. Wellington and Adelaide are also in the “nil” category at present when it comes to players outside the cap. So why are we penalising those who push the boat out? The new system would potentially help A-League clubs compete in Asia. Our clubs have struggled on the regional stage, yet the margins between victory and defeat are mainly down to the foreign talent available to the non-salary capped leagues we compete against. Man for man, are the Chinese players (for example) better than their Australian counterparts? I’d say it’s the foreigners who make the difference. LISTEN: Socceroos friendlies, the Special One, A-League - The Fox Football podcast To underline the point, seven of the nine goals conceded by Melbourne Victory in the group stage have been scored by foreigners, while four of the seven put past Sydney FC have also been scored by overseas-born players. As of next season, the A-League is likely to be aligned to the “plus one” rule. Allowing clubs to pay outside the cap in this category would also help in the recruitment of Asian players, as it’s unlikely cheap AFC imports will help either the clubs, or the competition. Ultimately of course, there is no doubt that the introduction of such a system would mean the bigger clubs dominating at the expense of the smaller clubs. But is that so wrong about that? It happens in leagues all around the world – and in case you missed it, it is already happening here too. There is nothing inherently bad about having big and small clubs – and we already have a significant equalisation measure in place, called the top six. You can still win the A-League – even with a negative win, loss ratio. But the bigger clubs need to be allowed to grow, and be the drivers of excellence in the A-League. Better players stimulate interest in the market, not just at the host club, but among competitors too. That is what we should be striving for, surely? To do that in a global game costs money. If clubs can afford to spend it, why should they be stopped? If they can’t, or don’t want to – no problem. But let the clubs decide, not the regulations. Because equalising back down towards the lowest common denominator, rather than encouraging the rest of the competition to catch up, doesn’t raise the overall standard. Equality over quality? In a global game operating in a highly competitive sporting market, it’s a concept that simply doesn’t work. Originally published as Simon Hill: ‘Excellence is punished. It’s unfathomable’
A-League foreign player rules: 3+1, Simon Hill solution | Daily Telegraph
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Angus
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+xSimon Hill, FOX SPORTS Football in Australia has long attempted to have both, but it’s becoming increasingly clear that one is being compromised by the other. The concept of both quality and equality comes from the other football codes. Share the love, spread the talent out via a salary cap, and you get a competitive league with the very best going head to head against each other each week. It sounds utopian, doesn’t it? Except that in football, there is one tiny flaw. It’s global footprint. Thus, unlike the other codes, the best talent tends to “bleed” out of the local competition and overseas in the chase for better wages, opportunities, or both.  Sydney's struggles continue Greed? No, it’s just the football economy, doing its thing. Players only have a short career, and if they can get better cash in Thailand or Saudi Arabia, then they owe it to themselves, and their families, to take it. The A-League has long been said to have a “soft” salary cap – there are all sorts of exemptions to entice players to come (or stay). But perhaps it’s time the regulations were looked at again – or else we risk diluting the standard of the competition in favour of equality once more. Across Asia, leagues in Japan, China, Korea, the Middle East, are all boosted by imports. They are normally players fans want to see, and while no-one is pretending Australian clubs can match the financial muscle of the Chinese Super League, it remains baffling we make it so hard for clubs to retain their top foreign talent. For example next season, Sydney FC must try to juggle two marquee spots between three players – Bobo, Milos Ninkovic and Adrian Mierzejewski – if they wish to retain the trio. Where does that leave Jordy Buijs? Adrian Mierzejewki (left) and Milos Ninkovic (right). Who will stay?Defenders rarely draw marquee money, so he’s likely to be on his way. Turning 30 later this year, the Dutchman may only have two decent contracts ahead of him. Yet between them, Bobo, Mierzejewski and Ninkovic have scored 39 of Sydney’s 55 goals, while Buijs has been one of the cornerstones of the league’s meanest defence. It was the same story with Brisbane Roar’s back-to-back title winning team, where Thomas Broich and Besart Berisha played crucial parts. Roar lost Berisha to Victory for nothing, thanks to the same restrictive rules – which, in those days, allowed for only one foreign marquee. Sporting excellence is being punished. It’s unfathomable. It’s not just Sydney FC that stand to lose next season. Melbourne Victory have already earmarked James Troisi as one of their marquees for next season – and Besart Berisha is more than likely to be the second. All of which will leave Victory’s standout player, Leroy George, as the odd man out in the equation. He deserves better. Thomas Broich and Besart Berisha were separated. Pic Jono Searle.If George ends up returning overseas, then everyone loses – not least the fans – and while you can lay the blame at Victory’s door in part for pre-empting the marquee spots, this is why, in my opinion, all foreigners must come out of the cap, as a precursor to the removal of the cap entirely. The arguments against are familiar ones. High wages for players who don’t perform is one. But isn’t that always the risk clubs run when signing players, big money or not? Disadvantaging Australian players is another. Perhaps. Which is why I would be in favour of allowing one marquee spot to remain open for Aussies, while also reducing the foreign allocation to 3+1 to fall into line with Asian Champions League rules. What happens with Leroy George if Melbourne Victory have two marquees?Less quantity, more quality – plus more spots available for local players, as we await long-overdue expansion. But now to the crux of the issue: Would the clubs be able to afford it? Some will and some won’t. Some will go for it and others will cut their cloth accordingly. Sound familiar? Yes, that’s what happens now under our salary capped league. Central Coast Mariners have just three foreign players on their books at present, and no marquees. Wellington and Adelaide are also in the “nil” category at present when it comes to players outside the cap. So why are we penalising those who push the boat out? The new system would potentially help A-League clubs compete in Asia. Our clubs have struggled on the regional stage, yet the margins between victory and defeat are mainly down to the foreign talent available to the non-salary capped leagues we compete against. Man for man, are the Chinese players (for example) better than their Australian counterparts? I’d say it’s the foreigners who make the difference. LISTEN: Socceroos friendlies, the Special One, A-League - The Fox Football podcast To underline the point, seven of the nine goals conceded by Melbourne Victory in the group stage have been scored by foreigners, while four of the seven put past Sydney FC have also been scored by overseas-born players. As of next season, the A-League is likely to be aligned to the “plus one” rule. Allowing clubs to pay outside the cap in this category would also help in the recruitment of Asian players, as it’s unlikely cheap AFC imports will help either the clubs, or the competition. Ultimately of course, there is no doubt that the introduction of such a system would mean the bigger clubs dominating at the expense of the smaller clubs. But is that so wrong about that? It happens in leagues all around the world – and in case you missed it, it is already happening here too. There is nothing inherently bad about having big and small clubs – and we already have a significant equalisation measure in place, called the top six. You can still win the A-League – even with a negative win, loss ratio. But the bigger clubs need to be allowed to grow, and be the drivers of excellence in the A-League. Better players stimulate interest in the market, not just at the host club, but among competitors too. That is what we should be striving for, surely? To do that in a global game costs money. If clubs can afford to spend it, why should they be stopped? If they can’t, or don’t want to – no problem. But let the clubs decide, not the regulations. Because equalising back down towards the lowest common denominator, rather than encouraging the rest of the competition to catch up, doesn’t raise the overall standard. Equality over quality? In a global game operating in a highly competitive sporting market, it’s a concept that simply doesn’t work. Originally published as Simon Hill: ‘Excellence is punished. It’s unfathomable’
A-League foreign player rules: 3+1, Simon Hill solution | Daily Telegraph Why would anyone pick Berisha over George as your marquee?
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melbourne_terrace
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+x+xSimon Hill, FOX SPORTS Football in Australia has long attempted to have both, but it’s becoming increasingly clear that one is being compromised by the other. The concept of both quality and equality comes from the other football codes. Share the love, spread the talent out via a salary cap, and you get a competitive league with the very best going head to head against each other each week. It sounds utopian, doesn’t it? Except that in football, there is one tiny flaw. It’s global footprint. Thus, unlike the other codes, the best talent tends to “bleed” out of the local competition and overseas in the chase for better wages, opportunities, or both.  Sydney's struggles continue Greed? No, it’s just the football economy, doing its thing. Players only have a short career, and if they can get better cash in Thailand or Saudi Arabia, then they owe it to themselves, and their families, to take it. The A-League has long been said to have a “soft” salary cap – there are all sorts of exemptions to entice players to come (or stay). But perhaps it’s time the regulations were looked at again – or else we risk diluting the standard of the competition in favour of equality once more. Across Asia, leagues in Japan, China, Korea, the Middle East, are all boosted by imports. They are normally players fans want to see, and while no-one is pretending Australian clubs can match the financial muscle of the Chinese Super League, it remains baffling we make it so hard for clubs to retain their top foreign talent. For example next season, Sydney FC must try to juggle two marquee spots between three players – Bobo, Milos Ninkovic and Adrian Mierzejewski – if they wish to retain the trio. Where does that leave Jordy Buijs? Adrian Mierzejewki (left) and Milos Ninkovic (right). Who will stay?Defenders rarely draw marquee money, so he’s likely to be on his way. Turning 30 later this year, the Dutchman may only have two decent contracts ahead of him. Yet between them, Bobo, Mierzejewski and Ninkovic have scored 39 of Sydney’s 55 goals, while Buijs has been one of the cornerstones of the league’s meanest defence. It was the same story with Brisbane Roar’s back-to-back title winning team, where Thomas Broich and Besart Berisha played crucial parts. Roar lost Berisha to Victory for nothing, thanks to the same restrictive rules – which, in those days, allowed for only one foreign marquee. Sporting excellence is being punished. It’s unfathomable. It’s not just Sydney FC that stand to lose next season. Melbourne Victory have already earmarked James Troisi as one of their marquees for next season – and Besart Berisha is more than likely to be the second. All of which will leave Victory’s standout player, Leroy George, as the odd man out in the equation. He deserves better. Thomas Broich and Besart Berisha were separated. Pic Jono Searle.If George ends up returning overseas, then everyone loses – not least the fans – and while you can lay the blame at Victory’s door in part for pre-empting the marquee spots, this is why, in my opinion, all foreigners must come out of the cap, as a precursor to the removal of the cap entirely. The arguments against are familiar ones. High wages for players who don’t perform is one. But isn’t that always the risk clubs run when signing players, big money or not? Disadvantaging Australian players is another. Perhaps. Which is why I would be in favour of allowing one marquee spot to remain open for Aussies, while also reducing the foreign allocation to 3+1 to fall into line with Asian Champions League rules. What happens with Leroy George if Melbourne Victory have two marquees?Less quantity, more quality – plus more spots available for local players, as we await long-overdue expansion. But now to the crux of the issue: Would the clubs be able to afford it? Some will and some won’t. Some will go for it and others will cut their cloth accordingly. Sound familiar? Yes, that’s what happens now under our salary capped league. Central Coast Mariners have just three foreign players on their books at present, and no marquees. Wellington and Adelaide are also in the “nil” category at present when it comes to players outside the cap. So why are we penalising those who push the boat out? The new system would potentially help A-League clubs compete in Asia. Our clubs have struggled on the regional stage, yet the margins between victory and defeat are mainly down to the foreign talent available to the non-salary capped leagues we compete against. Man for man, are the Chinese players (for example) better than their Australian counterparts? I’d say it’s the foreigners who make the difference. LISTEN: Socceroos friendlies, the Special One, A-League - The Fox Football podcast To underline the point, seven of the nine goals conceded by Melbourne Victory in the group stage have been scored by foreigners, while four of the seven put past Sydney FC have also been scored by overseas-born players. As of next season, the A-League is likely to be aligned to the “plus one” rule. Allowing clubs to pay outside the cap in this category would also help in the recruitment of Asian players, as it’s unlikely cheap AFC imports will help either the clubs, or the competition. Ultimately of course, there is no doubt that the introduction of such a system would mean the bigger clubs dominating at the expense of the smaller clubs. But is that so wrong about that? It happens in leagues all around the world – and in case you missed it, it is already happening here too. There is nothing inherently bad about having big and small clubs – and we already have a significant equalisation measure in place, called the top six. You can still win the A-League – even with a negative win, loss ratio. But the bigger clubs need to be allowed to grow, and be the drivers of excellence in the A-League. Better players stimulate interest in the market, not just at the host club, but among competitors too. That is what we should be striving for, surely? To do that in a global game costs money. If clubs can afford to spend it, why should they be stopped? If they can’t, or don’t want to – no problem. But let the clubs decide, not the regulations. Because equalising back down towards the lowest common denominator, rather than encouraging the rest of the competition to catch up, doesn’t raise the overall standard. Equality over quality? In a global game operating in a highly competitive sporting market, it’s a concept that simply doesn’t work. Originally published as Simon Hill: ‘Excellence is punished. It’s unfathomable’
A-League foreign player rules: 3+1, Simon Hill solution | Daily Telegraph Clu Why would anyone pick Berisha over George as your marquee? The point is we shouldn't have to pick in the first place. Clubs have money to spend and should be allowed to do so as they see fit.
Viennese Vuck
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aussie scott21
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Wellington Phoenix in round 23, 35 points behind SFC can no longer make the final 6 and thus be champs.
5 rounds left when they lost the chance......
This is what the 10 team A-League is.
This is why every team has that "we are a proud team" aura. Because they pass the trophies around. Except Perth. Sorry Perth.
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Bundoora B
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+xWellington Phoenix in round 23, 35 points behind SFC can no longer make the final 6 and thus be champs. 5 rounds left when they lost the chance...... This is what the 10 team A-League is. This is why every team has that "we are a proud team" aura. Because they pass the trophies around. Except Perth. Sorry Perth. i would lol but this makes me sad
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BA81
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