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Barca4Life
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This feels like a cluster****, on one side the FA are going on with the NSD process and on the other side the APL are wanting to expand the league to 16 teams?
What about a blueprint for the future of the professional game instead? Which should include the prospect of introducing promotion and relegation with all parties working together to grow the game rather than each one doing its own thing?
This badly needs direction, but once again Australian football in a confused state with not only with a lack of direction but also it seems to be a lack of unity as well.
Maybe we should have looked at Japan and how they did the J-League pyramid, again we don't seem keen to learn from others.
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Davide82
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs there is a desire to create pro/rel between the lower tiers (first), there had better be a third tier or the teams cannot be promoted and also relegated to anywhere. Prior to 1977, there existed (at least in Vic) a top tier involving the State League and 4 Divisions below it. All 5 tiers of comps were under the P&R system. So 1 team starting in Division 4 could after 5 years theoretically end up playing in the top flight if they won the title 4 consecutive years in a row. This worked well as comps immediately above and below each other did not have a massive gulf in standard between them, although between the State League (who were semi professional) and Division 1 there was a bigger difference, albeit not as much as between the A-League and the NPL now. To make the P&R system work satisfactorily now, it has to have better equity in standards throughout. The NST is small step that will boost short term interests for a few clubs but not for the majority. Even if it does work, it may not be enough for it to continue, as was the case with the introduction of a break-away league called the NSL. It is good we are to have a strong 2nd tier, however I wouldn't be popping champagne bottles over P&R just yet. We may never see it in its purist format. Is there really that much of a disparity between the 16th best team outside of the A-League and the 17th best team? I doubt it. Let's say NSW ends up with 5 teams in the NSD: APIA, Marconi, Olympic, SUFC and Wollongong. That means that teams like Manly, Rockdale and Blacktown would still be in the NSWPL. I imagine they could all make the step up to an NSD without too much issue. Same goes with Victoria. After South, Knights, Bergers and Preston (for example), you then have Avondale, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Hume knocking at the door. Or QLD: any of Pen Power, Lions, City, GCU or Olympic could compete, but only 2 or 3 probably will, the others will have to aim for promotion. So the transition won't be too much a gulf in class. It could be further smoothed out (eventually) by a third tier divided into north and south conferences. With a professional NST as has been proposed, the gulf between the ALM and NST won't be much at at all. That's the good bit. The bad bit is that there will be a definite gulf between the NST and any third tier and lower. It will be a long, long time before we'll see, if at all, a professional 3rd tier to bridge the gap. P&R will therefore never work as well as it did during the state league era. Even then it was canned.I don't for one minute, want to undervalue the worth of the NST as it is a great step for Australian football. But P&R will be disappointing due to these gaps in standard. When did p/r get canned at State league level? The top flight era for the state leagues finished in 1977. That's when the football authorities canned it in top flight within the new NSL comp. The A league can stand alone like a mouldy, forgotten lump pf cheese at the back of the fridge with its feral bucket, pant pissing fans, its violence and its generic franchises... These guys have paid a motza to join the ponzi scheme I dont begrudge them their stand alone competition... You know what's funny? You keep making excuses lately for the NST and their proposed closed shop and wishing to see things half full and trusting they will change after a few years (a few years of unrecoverable money down the drain where they won't want upstarts coming in for free) and preferring something over nothing etc etc etc You sound so much like a "plasticA-League fan" back in the day lately but you don't see it.
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grazorblade
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs there is a desire to create pro/rel between the lower tiers (first), there had better be a third tier or the teams cannot be promoted and also relegated to anywhere. Prior to 1977, there existed (at least in Vic) a top tier involving the State League and 4 Divisions below it. All 5 tiers of comps were under the P&R system. So 1 team starting in Division 4 could after 5 years theoretically end up playing in the top flight if they won the title 4 consecutive years in a row. This worked well as comps immediately above and below each other did not have a massive gulf in standard between them, although between the State League (who were semi professional) and Division 1 there was a bigger difference, albeit not as much as between the A-League and the NPL now. To make the P&R system work satisfactorily now, it has to have better equity in standards throughout. The NST is small step that will boost short term interests for a few clubs but not for the majority. Even if it does work, it may not be enough for it to continue, as was the case with the introduction of a break-away league called the NSL. It is good we are to have a strong 2nd tier, however I wouldn't be popping champagne bottles over P&R just yet. We may never see it in its purist format. Is there really that much of a disparity between the 16th best team outside of the A-League and the 17th best team? I doubt it. Let's say NSW ends up with 5 teams in the NSD: APIA, Marconi, Olympic, SUFC and Wollongong. That means that teams like Manly, Rockdale and Blacktown would still be in the NSWPL. I imagine they could all make the step up to an NSD without too much issue. Same goes with Victoria. After South, Knights, Bergers and Preston (for example), you then have Avondale, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Hume knocking at the door. Or QLD: any of Pen Power, Lions, City, GCU or Olympic could compete, but only 2 or 3 probably will, the others will have to aim for promotion. So the transition won't be too much a gulf in class. It could be further smoothed out (eventually) by a third tier divided into north and south conferences. With a professional NST as has been proposed, the gulf between the ALM and NST won't be much at at all. That's the good bit. The bad bit is that there will be a definite gulf between the NST and any third tier and lower. It will be a long, long time before we'll see, if at all, a professional 3rd tier to bridge the gap. P&R will therefore never work as well as it did during the state league era. Even then it was canned.I don't for one minute, want to undervalue the worth of the NST as it is a great step for Australian football. But P&R will be disappointing due to these gaps in standard. When did p/r get canned at State league level? The top flight era for the state leagues finished in 1977. That's when the football authorities canned it in top flight within the new NSL comp. Oh I see what you mean... So basically the NSL AND Aleague are both the same.in that they steeped away from the pro/rel state leagues and went it alone.. Agreed.... Pro/rel in the state leagues never changed as far as Ima ware. But I am taliking about a new comp here, the Aleague is all but dead... Its NST - State NPLS - State leagues and below that we are talking/hoping about ALL being linked up with Pro/Rel The A league can stand alone like a mouldy, forgotten lump pf cheese at the back of the fridge with its feral bucket, pant pissing fans, its violence and its generic franchises... These guys have paid a motza to join the ponzi scheme I dont begrudge them their stand alone competition... I don't think P and R works in Australia without a buffer division between the top and state leagues. The only comparable country I guess is Canada, which presently doesn't have P and R (they have even less p and r than us!). So I think we should all hope the a league and nst work out, otherwise I think a proper pyramid is impossible
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+xAs there is a desire to create pro/rel between the lower tiers (first), there had better be a third tier or the teams cannot be promoted and also relegated to anywhere. Prior to 1977, there existed (at least in Vic) a top tier involving the State League and 4 Divisions below it. All 5 tiers of comps were under the P&R system. So 1 team starting in Division 4 could after 5 years theoretically end up playing in the top flight if they won the title 4 consecutive years in a row. This worked well as comps immediately above and below each other did not have a massive gulf in standard between them, although between the State League (who were semi professional) and Division 1 there was a bigger difference, albeit not as much as between the A-League and the NPL now. To make the P&R system work satisfactorily now, it has to have better equity in standards throughout. The NST is small step that will boost short term interests for a few clubs but not for the majority. Even if it does work, it may not be enough for it to continue, as was the case with the introduction of a break-away league called the NSL. It is good we are to have a strong 2nd tier, however I wouldn't be popping champagne bottles over P&R just yet. We may never see it in its purist format. Is there really that much of a disparity between the 16th best team outside of the A-League and the 17th best team? I doubt it. Let's say NSW ends up with 5 teams in the NSD: APIA, Marconi, Olympic, SUFC and Wollongong. That means that teams like Manly, Rockdale and Blacktown would still be in the NSWPL. I imagine they could all make the step up to an NSD without too much issue. Same goes with Victoria. After South, Knights, Bergers and Preston (for example), you then have Avondale, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Hume knocking at the door. Or QLD: any of Pen Power, Lions, City, GCU or Olympic could compete, but only 2 or 3 probably will, the others will have to aim for promotion. So the transition won't be too much a gulf in class. It could be further smoothed out (eventually) by a third tier divided into north and south conferences. With a professional NST as has been proposed, the gulf between the ALM and NST won't be much at at all. That's the good bit. The bad bit is that there will be a definite gulf between the NST and any third tier and lower. It will be a long, long time before we'll see, if at all, a professional 3rd tier to bridge the gap. P&R will therefore never work as well as it did during the state league era. Even then it was canned.I don't for one minute, want to undervalue the worth of the NST as it is a great step for Australian football. But P&R will be disappointing due to these gaps in standard. When did p/r get canned at State league level? The top flight era for the state leagues finished in 1977. That's when the football authorities canned it in top flight within the new NSL comp. Oh I see what you mean... So basically the NSL AND Aleague are both the same.in that they steeped away from the pro/rel state leagues and went it alone.. Agreed.... Pro/rel in the state leagues never changed as far as Ima ware. But I am taliking about a new comp here, the Aleague is all but dead... Its NST - State NPLS - State leagues and below that we are talking/hoping about ALL being linked up with Pro/Rel The A league can stand alone like a mouldy, forgotten lump pf cheese at the back of the fridge with its feral bucket, pant pissing fans, its violence and its generic franchises... These guys have paid a motza to join the ponzi scheme I dont begrudge them their stand alone competition...
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xIt's probably not that big a deal that only one Adelaide team has put up its hand for the NSD, realistically, there was never going to be more than one (and the possibility of no teams west of Mildura joining the NSD remains a distinct possibility). 10 News First Adelaide@10NewsFirstAdlAs @FootballAUS makes plans to launch a National Second Division next year, SA clubs have questioned the financial viability – with only @AdelaideCityFC to put its hand up right away | @10FootballAU @BDjite @LucasRinaldo_ Well, looks like Channel 10 have changed their tune ... guess they WONT be broadcasting the NST then? hahahahahahahaha
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xWest Adelaide play Adelaide City tonight. The game has been promoted quite a bit so I’m expecting a good crowd. Would be amazing to reignite the derby and some of the other great NSL rivalries in the NSD. West Adelaide have an unfinished stadium sitting there in Kilburn. Hopefully they can sort it all out and move on as a club. Good luck mate... Will be watching this one..... MIA ZWH HELLAS ..........
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+xNew licences will appear when Silverlake dividends are due. Unfortunately prospective P/R would only devalue the licenses for sale some time after that So, will be some considerable time after that. Unless it dies in the meantime or FA grows a pair Let's wait and see if the NST gets off the ground first. Then start discussing how P/R may be implemented. Agreed.
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bettega
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The APL, and some A-League clubs, are now effectively owned and controlled by the equivalent of foreign loan sharks.
The likelihood that they would aquiesce to P&R is effectively zero.
As Numkip says, it's all about the sale of licenses to pay the piper.
This is straight out of the MLS play book, they now have 30 clubs in the top division, with zero prospect of P&R.
Look to the MLS to see where the A-League is going vis-a-vis P&R.
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West Adelaide Hellas
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West Adelaide play Adelaide City tonight. The game has been promoted quite a bit so I’m expecting a good crowd. Would be amazing to reignite the derby and some of the other great NSL rivalries in the NSD. West Adelaide have an unfinished stadium sitting there in Kilburn. Hopefully they can sort it all out and move on as a club.
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bohemia
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+xIt's probably not that big a deal that only one Adelaide team has put up its hand for the NSD, realistically, there was never going to be more than one (and the possibility of no teams west of Mildura joining the NSD remains a distinct possibility). 10 News First Adelaide@10NewsFirstAdlAs @FootballAUS makes plans to launch a National Second Division next year, SA clubs have questioned the financial viability – with only @AdelaideCityFC to put its hand up right away | @10FootballAU @BDjite @LucasRinaldo_ West Adelaide have destroyed themselves over their failed ground development at Kilburn. That's the other half of the big two right there.
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Butler99
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+xNew licences will appear when Silverlake dividends are due. Unfortunately prospective P/R would only devalue the licenses for sale some time after that So, will be some considerable time after that. Unless it dies in the meantime or FA grows a pair Let's wait and see if the NST gets off the ground first. Then start discussing how P/R may be implemented.
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numklpkgulftumch
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New licences will appear when Silverlake dividends are due. Unfortunately prospective P/R would only devalue the licenses for sale some time after that So, will be some considerable time after that. Unless it dies in the meantime or FA grows a pair
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bettega
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It's probably not that big a deal that only one Adelaide team has put up its hand for the NSD, realistically, there was never going to be more than one (and the possibility of no teams west of Mildura joining the NSD remains a distinct possibility). 10 News First Adelaide@10NewsFirstAdlAs @FootballAUS makes plans to launch a National Second Division next year, SA clubs have questioned the financial viability – with only @AdelaideCityFC to put its hand up right away | @10FootballAU @BDjite @LucasRinaldo_
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Butler99
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Maybe.. As long as by "some time after that" you mean decades. ?
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Veritas
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Tasmania gets another chance to impress in the battle to secure an A-League teamSo reading between the lines - the plan is 2nd Division next year - 2 new A League teams in 24/25 - 2 new A league teams in 25/26 - then pro rel some time after that.
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PGR
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+x+xIn the big picture looking at all this just really shows no matter the good points finally having a Pro comp and more, drew new crowds originally and money a closed comp has been a experiment that has failed the game down to grass roots where it all begins in the first place. The lack of considering this only to focus on the top has come to bite the outset of the game overall to move ahead together and develop links top to bottom as normally occurs. It no matter right and wrong before NSL this is the now and past 17yrs. NST will have its hurdles a plenty and to look to build below even more, its a absolute mess trying to move ahead due to all the barriers and motives from one level of admin to another. Mosh pit and a half. A closed comp has been in play longer than the 17 years the A-league has been in place. By and large the NSL was a closed comp as well. The challenges the aleague faces is not due to it being a closed comp. That's just an argument for people with an agenda. The expectations of the NST will practically rule out all NPL clubs. There'll be applicants I have no doubt. But most of them will be dreamers like the west Adelaide and Freo A-league bids back in 2018. An NST can be implemented, but the expectations need to be reduced because it is important to get it up and running. But I don't think the powers that be are that keen to implement it. Regardless of the rhetoric coming from JJ I think you're pretty bang on with every you have said. I'd have to add if the powers that be really wanted it, it would have done so much earlier. It's long overdue however and most welcome. It will have its place. Unfortunately over time, many will be disappointed after the novelty wears off.
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PGR
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+x+x+x+x+xAs there is a desire to create pro/rel between the lower tiers (first), there had better be a third tier or the teams cannot be promoted and also relegated to anywhere. Prior to 1977, there existed (at least in Vic) a top tier involving the State League and 4 Divisions below it. All 5 tiers of comps were under the P&R system. So 1 team starting in Division 4 could after 5 years theoretically end up playing in the top flight if they won the title 4 consecutive years in a row. This worked well as comps immediately above and below each other did not have a massive gulf in standard between them, although between the State League (who were semi professional) and Division 1 there was a bigger difference, albeit not as much as between the A-League and the NPL now. To make the P&R system work satisfactorily now, it has to have better equity in standards throughout. The NST is small step that will boost short term interests for a few clubs but not for the majority. Even if it does work, it may not be enough for it to continue, as was the case with the introduction of a break-away league called the NSL. It is good we are to have a strong 2nd tier, however I wouldn't be popping champagne bottles over P&R just yet. We may never see it in its purist format. Is there really that much of a disparity between the 16th best team outside of the A-League and the 17th best team? I doubt it. Let's say NSW ends up with 5 teams in the NSD: APIA, Marconi, Olympic, SUFC and Wollongong. That means that teams like Manly, Rockdale and Blacktown would still be in the NSWPL. I imagine they could all make the step up to an NSD without too much issue. Same goes with Victoria. After South, Knights, Bergers and Preston (for example), you then have Avondale, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Hume knocking at the door. Or QLD: any of Pen Power, Lions, City, GCU or Olympic could compete, but only 2 or 3 probably will, the others will have to aim for promotion. So the transition won't be too much a gulf in class. It could be further smoothed out (eventually) by a third tier divided into north and south conferences. With a professional NST as has been proposed, the gulf between the ALM and NST won't be much at at all. That's the good bit. The bad bit is that there will be a definite gulf between the NST and any third tier and lower. It will be a long, long time before we'll see, if at all, a professional 3rd tier to bridge the gap. P&R will therefore never work as well as it did during the state league era. Even then it was canned.I don't for one minute, want to undervalue the worth of the NST as it is a great step for Australian football. But P&R will be disappointing due to these gaps in standard. When did p/r get canned at State league level? The top flight era for the state leagues finished in 1977. That's when the football authorities canned it in top flight within the new NSL comp.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+xIn the big picture looking at all this just really shows no matter the good points finally having a Pro comp and more, drew new crowds originally and money a closed comp has been a experiment that has failed the game down to grass roots where it all begins in the first place. The lack of considering this only to focus on the top has come to bite the outset of the game overall to move ahead together and develop links top to bottom as normally occurs. It no matter right and wrong before NSL this is the now and past 17yrs. NST will have its hurdles a plenty and to look to build below even more, its a absolute mess trying to move ahead due to all the barriers and motives from one level of admin to another. Mosh pit and a half. A closed comp has been in play longer than the 17 years the A-league has been in place. By and large the NSL was a closed comp as well. The challenges the aleague faces is not due to it being a closed comp. That's just an argument for people with an agenda. The expectations of the NST will practically rule out all NPL clubs. There'll be applicants I have no doubt. But most of them will be dreamers like the west Adelaide and Freo A-league bids back in 2018. An NST can be implemented, but the expectations need to be reduced because it is important to get it up and running. But I don't think the powers that be are that keen to implement it. Regardless of the rhetoric coming from JJ yer that it was the past is the past (NSL) - yes closed comp is the challenge for its only openning to new bids/entities that is proving its not working barring the exceptions. This little place is nothing like the USA that can sustain a product to the mass's. Our population and DNA is so different to the yanks regards sport. Even though the NST requirements maybe OTT I think making sure to meet a standard is whats needed period considering the issues of the past 30yrs. Sure some Clubs are no where near it (dreamers) BUT at least 30 have thrown their hat in the ring, this will sort out the have's and have nots. Importantly the have not's will know where they need to be to have a chance in the future. Yep no doubt about it there will be resistance from within and more so the APL throwing in their dis content as Townsend has mentioned his annoyance of exclusion to content to date.
We're good at shooting ourselves on the foot - those opposed should have shame.By the way well said MSC above. Thanks mate, we both want this thing to get off the ground as soon as possible, as do many many others... The APL protectionism is just so shit, worse than any of the bad ol effnik bogey men some on here like to hate on... I just wish some could see it for what it is, thats all. The latest hurdle to NST now is the rumour that 2 or 3 state FAs are refusing to budge in regards to relegation back into the NPL.. Basically saying that if any clubs from their state pull out of the NPL then if the NST "experiment" fails in 2-3 years then any club would have to re-jointhe football pyramid back at the lowest possible state league... This is for SURE going to make a few of the smaller clubs think twice about applying FFS. To explain, so if South, Knights and Bergers pull out of NPL VIC1 to join NST next year and it fails in 2-3 years, they would only be allowed back into State 4 Victoria the following season ........ I guess only plastic farking garbage franchises can skip the queue eh?? FFS I hate these muppets so badly sometimes... This is, apparently the REAL reason why pro/rel to NPL wont happen from day dot, because 2-3 fuckin little state shitty federations are going to lose their "wog cash cows" from NPL and are bitter about it .... HAHAHAHAHAAH we can never ever win in this country., FFS if that's true then FA should just abolish the state feds. In any case precedent was set in 2004 when the NSL collapsed and the surviving clubs went straight into the top state divisions. It was actually great to see fixtures like APIA vs Marconi, Heidelberg vs South, etc. for the first time in many years. Not as smooth as all that though .... South missed out on football altogether in 2005 because of backlash from a few clubs in Football VIC (some bullshit about one club having printed hundreds of fridges magnets with their fixtures on already or some such petty horseshit from memory) and we had to wait almsot 18 months and I guess from a Federation point of view the State Feds actually WANTED the old NSL clubs to come back to the old premier leagues back then to boost attendances.. I went to the first South v Bergers derby in 2006 and the crowd was massive for state league (still a record I think something like 11 or 12k at Bob Jane) we all thought it would be like that with other clubs but 2-3 rounds later there were 500 people in the stands...
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PGR
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+xmate ofcourse introducing P/R from top to bottom won't occur let alone managing to get 3 Div's - we're struggling to get a NST up and running..... AL comp set the resistance path from the outset, we have Feds wanting to protect their past 17yrs of ground, then the rest like the PFA, the AAFC and ofcourse the FA who else have I missed. The community Clubs anymore. We all (well most should) the AL brought better media involvement, Roos did it more than anything else, mainstream interest yes but can only last so long and proven now, new clubs questionable, few are solid the rest ordinary and bleak. Overall the shop front looks way better agreed - but underneath and content not. Selling any new product it needs to sustain its performance levels and demands that meet expectations to the market, obviously it is not for some years now. Yep participation increased but not just because of AL at all, quite small tbh compared to, the huge growth of Womens football, that was coming with or without them, the general change by parents towards sport violent sports ie rugby/afl wasn't brought in by the AL - all these we're timing. Absolutely P/R needs to be introduced tweaked and slowly and say 2 Divs only, NST/NPL as the tester - thats our way and only can be due to so much fragmentation and resistance. There's growth (grass roots, womens football etc) when a product is presented favorably and I believe the new competition provided just that and for a number of years may I add. The original concept of the AL was necessary and it worked for a long time but well exceeded its used by date. The APL was not the answer, not that the original regime wanted it either. I don't really know or understand why these next steps eg NST and overall negative cost improvements such as fixtures, is taking so long. What circumstances have we got now that weren't available to be implemented a few years back? No one is happy with the stagnation. It's been going on for too long and is the cause of too much frustration.
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LFC.
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mate ofcourse introducing P/R from top to bottom won't occur let alone managing to get 3 Div's - we're struggling to get a NST up and running..... AL comp set the resistance path from the outset, we have Feds wanting to protect their past 17yrs of ground, then the rest like the PFA, the AAFC and ofcourse the FA who else have I missed. The community Clubs anymore. We all (well most should) agree the AL brought better media involvement, Roos did it more than anything else a huge leg up, mainstream interest yes but can only last so long and proven now, new clubs questionable, few are solid the rest ordinary and bleak. Overall the shop front looks way better agreed - but underneath and content not. Selling any new product it needs to sustain its performance levels and demands that meet expectations to the market, obviously it is not for some years now. Yep participation increased but not just because of AL at all, quite small tbh compared to, the huge growth of Womens football, that was coming with or without them, the general change by parents towards sport violent sports ie rugby/afl wasn't brought in by the AL - all these we're timing. Absolutely P/R needs to be introduced tweaked and slowly and say 2 Divs only, NST/NPL as the tester - thats our way and only can be due to so much fragmentation and resistance.
Love Football
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PGR
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+xIn the big picture looking at all this just really shows no matter the good points finally having a Pro comp and more, drew new crowds originally and money a closed comp has been a experiment that has failed the game down to grass roots where it all begins in the first place. The lack of considering this only to focus on the top has come to bite the outset of the game overall to move ahead together and develop links top to bottom as normally occurs. It no matter right and wrong before NSL this is the now and past 17yrs. NST will have its hurdles a plenty and to look to build below even more, its a absolute mess trying to move ahead due to all the barriers and motives from one level of admin to another. Mosh pit and a half. The closed comp provided assurances that managed to kick start new clubs, media involvement, corporate and mainstream interest. It's still a superior product than before, even at the current low state of affairs. The birth of this "closed shop" comp resulted in massive increase in participation rates at "grass root" level. If you're talking about the need for improvements then yes, plenty of opportunities available as many were missed. There is no guarantee going back to old, failed models will bring success when the evidence is to the contrary. We can tweak the introduction of P&R with set criterias. It will be minimal and this is how it will proceed. But full unfettered P&R across all tiers will never happen in our life time.
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Butler99
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+x+x+xThey have identified that the youth pathway is lacking (and seemingly that have worked out that it is costing them money). With the NST competition proposed for March to September there will be a youth development gap that they can fill with a resumption and expansion of their youth league from October to February. Reading into it, I am guessing that they have suddenly identified that their is a goldmine in contracting promising young players, advancing their careers and on-selling their contracts. That's sort of a "FMD, at last!" moment right there. Perhaps they are feeling a little uncomfortable about who will actually own those contracts? Maybe somebody said " why aren't we doing what Joondalup has been doing for decades?" I can imagine the blank faces and the "what's a Joondalup?" moment. I can imagine the horror when they realised they can be completely bypassed and the further realisation that there is a burgeoning market coming and they will be the customer and not the seller. Did I mention that they feel hurt because there is a lack of respect toward their highnesses? Haha Do you know exactly what Joondalup is about? Do you really think they are "contracting" their young players??? I daresay not one of their players that got sent to the UK has ever been contracted by Joondalup. The kids went before even turning 18. They have benefitted from expat families living in the area and the young lads managing to go back to the UK while underage because they mostly have a British passport. And anyone that knows Perth knows it's Little Britain up that way. They kids simply get slot into the youth teams in the UK and some of them make it which gives Joondalup a fee. If they make it. But I'd also hazard a guess, not one kid from Joondalup that went to the UK ONLY had an Aussie passport. They wouldn't bypass the FIFA rules then. Trying to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth is false. Now as a serious question, why do you always fall into anglo bashing and other bigotry? It spoils your otherwise insightful messaging. Serious question Can you point out these alleged posts about Anglo bashing and other bigotry? 🙄
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
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+x+x+xThey have identified that the youth pathway is lacking (and seemingly that have worked out that it is costing them money). With the NST competition proposed for March to September there will be a youth development gap that they can fill with a resumption and expansion of their youth league from October to February. Reading into it, I am guessing that they have suddenly identified that their is a goldmine in contracting promising young players, advancing their careers and on-selling their contracts. That's sort of a "FMD, at last!" moment right there. Perhaps they are feeling a little uncomfortable about who will actually own those contracts? Maybe somebody said " why aren't we doing what Joondalup has been doing for decades?" I can imagine the blank faces and the "what's a Joondalup?" moment. I can imagine the horror when they realised they can be completely bypassed and the further realisation that there is a burgeoning market coming and they will be the customer and not the seller. Did I mention that they feel hurt because there is a lack of respect toward their highnesses? Haha Do you know exactly what Joondalup is about? Do you really think they are "contracting" their young players??? I daresay not one of their players that got sent to the UK has ever been contracted by Joondalup. The kids went before even turning 18. They have benefitted from expat families living in the area and the young lads managing to go back to the UK while underage because they mostly have a British passport. And anyone that knows Perth knows it's Little Britain up that way. They kids simply get slot into the youth teams in the UK and some of them make it which gives Joondalup a fee. If they make it. But I'd also hazard a guess, not one kid from Joondalup that went to the UK ONLY had an Aussie passport. They wouldn't bypass the FIFA rules then. Trying to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth is false. I didn't "try to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth". You managed that by yourself. I used Joondalup as an example of where a club out of the mainstream of eastern state football politics had created an enduring successful pathway to advance the interests of the players and themselves as an entity. Now as a serious question, why do you always fall into anglo bashing and other bigotry? It spoils your otherwise insightful messaging. Haha. Sure you didn't. 🥱🥱 This paragraph is self explanatory. " Reading into it, I am guessing that they have suddenly identified that their is a goldmine in contracting promising young players, advancing their careers and on-selling their contracts. That's sort of a "FMD, at last!" moment right there. Perhaps they are feeling a little uncomfortable about who will actually own those contracts? Maybe somebody said "why aren't we doing what Joondalup has been doing for decades?"
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df1982
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861,
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+x+x+x+xIn the big picture looking at all this just really shows no matter the good points finally having a Pro comp and more, drew new crowds originally and money a closed comp has been a experiment that has failed the game down to grass roots where it all begins in the first place. The lack of considering this only to focus on the top has come to bite the outset of the game overall to move ahead together and develop links top to bottom as normally occurs. It no matter right and wrong before NSL this is the now and past 17yrs. NST will have its hurdles a plenty and to look to build below even more, its a absolute mess trying to move ahead due to all the barriers and motives from one level of admin to another. Mosh pit and a half. A closed comp has been in play longer than the 17 years the A-league has been in place. By and large the NSL was a closed comp as well. The challenges the aleague faces is not due to it being a closed comp. That's just an argument for people with an agenda. The expectations of the NST will practically rule out all NPL clubs. There'll be applicants I have no doubt. But most of them will be dreamers like the west Adelaide and Freo A-league bids back in 2018. An NST can be implemented, but the expectations need to be reduced because it is important to get it up and running. But I don't think the powers that be are that keen to implement it. Regardless of the rhetoric coming from JJ yer that it was the past is the past (NSL) - yes closed comp is the challenge for its only openning to new bids/entities that is proving its not working barring the exceptions. This little place is nothing like the USA that can sustain a product to the mass's. Our population and DNA is so different to the yanks regards sport. Even though the NST requirements maybe OTT I think making sure to meet a standard is whats needed period considering the issues of the past 30yrs. Sure some Clubs are no where near it (dreamers) BUT at least 30 have thrown their hat in the ring, this will sort out the have's and have nots. Importantly the have not's will know where they need to be to have a chance in the future. Yep no doubt about it there will be resistance from within and more so the APL throwing in their dis content as Townsend has mentioned his annoyance of exclusion to content to date.
We're good at shooting ourselves on the foot - those opposed should have shame.By the way well said MSC above. Thanks mate, we both want this thing to get off the ground as soon as possible, as do many many others... The APL protectionism is just so shit, worse than any of the bad ol effnik bogey men some on here like to hate on... I just wish some could see it for what it is, thats all. The latest hurdle to NST now is the rumour that 2 or 3 state FAs are refusing to budge in regards to relegation back into the NPL.. Basically saying that if any clubs from their state pull out of the NPL then if the NST "experiment" fails in 2-3 years then any club would have to re-jointhe football pyramid back at the lowest possible state league... This is for SURE going to make a few of the smaller clubs think twice about applying FFS. To explain, so if South, Knights and Bergers pull out of NPL VIC1 to join NST next year and it fails in 2-3 years, they would only be allowed back into State 4 Victoria the following season ........ I guess only plastic farking garbage franchises can skip the queue eh?? FFS I hate these muppets so badly sometimes... This is, apparently the REAL reason why pro/rel to NPL wont happen from day dot, because 2-3 fuckin little state shitty federations are going to lose their "wog cash cows" from NPL and are bitter about it .... HAHAHAHAHAAH we can never ever win in this country., FFS if that's true then FA should just abolish the state feds. In any case precedent was set in 2004 when the NSL collapsed and the surviving clubs went straight into the top state divisions. It was actually great to see fixtures like APIA vs Marconi, Heidelberg vs South, etc. for the first time in many years.
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numklpkgulftumch
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.9K,
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+x+x+x+xThey have identified that the youth pathway is lacking (and seemingly that have worked out that it is costing them money). With the NST competition proposed for March to September there will be a youth development gap that they can fill with a resumption and expansion of their youth league from October to February. Reading into it, I am guessing that they have suddenly identified that their is a goldmine in contracting promising young players, advancing their careers and on-selling their contracts. That's sort of a "FMD, at last!" moment right there. Perhaps they are feeling a little uncomfortable about who will actually own those contracts? Maybe somebody said " why aren't we doing what Joondalup has been doing for decades?" I can imagine the blank faces and the "what's a Joondalup?" moment. I can imagine the horror when they realised they can be completely bypassed and the further realisation that there is a burgeoning market coming and they will be the customer and not the seller. Did I mention that they feel hurt because there is a lack of respect toward their highnesses? Haha Do you know exactly what Joondalup is about? Do you really think they are "contracting" their young players??? I daresay not one of their players that got sent to the UK has ever been contracted by Joondalup. The kids went before even turning 18. They have benefitted from expat families living in the area and the young lads managing to go back to the UK while underage because they mostly have a British passport. And anyone that knows Perth knows it's Little Britain up that way. They kids simply get slot into the youth teams in the UK and some of them make it which gives Joondalup a fee. If they make it. But I'd also hazard a guess, not one kid from Joondalup that went to the UK ONLY had an Aussie passport. They wouldn't bypass the FIFA rules then. Trying to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth is false. I didn't "try to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth". You managed that by yourself. I used Joondalup as an example of where a club out of the mainstream of eastern state football politics had created an enduring successful pathway to advance the interests of the players and themselves as an entity. Now as a serious question, why do you always fall into anglo bashing and other bigotry? It spoils your otherwise insightful messaging. Good points made sir - and in the theme of breeding kids locally then to go offshore in some case’s possibly dual passports I’m surprised roosty hasn’t come in this all loud and abusive like in similar discussions they are poaching local kids with parents who have links of all places the UK, maybe being Anglo may be alright. Breeding kids locally has been the tradition, but I guess with test tube technology there's new possibilities
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TheDjentleman
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 362,
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+x+x+x+xThey have identified that the youth pathway is lacking (and seemingly that have worked out that it is costing them money). With the NST competition proposed for March to September there will be a youth development gap that they can fill with a resumption and expansion of their youth league from October to February. Reading into it, I am guessing that they have suddenly identified that their is a goldmine in contracting promising young players, advancing their careers and on-selling their contracts. That's sort of a "FMD, at last!" moment right there. Perhaps they are feeling a little uncomfortable about who will actually own those contracts? Maybe somebody said " why aren't we doing what Joondalup has been doing for decades?" I can imagine the blank faces and the "what's a Joondalup?" moment. I can imagine the horror when they realised they can be completely bypassed and the further realisation that there is a burgeoning market coming and they will be the customer and not the seller. Did I mention that they feel hurt because there is a lack of respect toward their highnesses? Haha Do you know exactly what Joondalup is about? Do you really think they are "contracting" their young players??? I daresay not one of their players that got sent to the UK has ever been contracted by Joondalup. The kids went before even turning 18. They have benefitted from expat families living in the area and the young lads managing to go back to the UK while underage because they mostly have a British passport. And anyone that knows Perth knows it's Little Britain up that way. They kids simply get slot into the youth teams in the UK and some of them make it which gives Joondalup a fee. If they make it. But I'd also hazard a guess, not one kid from Joondalup that went to the UK ONLY had an Aussie passport. They wouldn't bypass the FIFA rules then. Trying to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth is false. I didn't "try to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth". You managed that by yourself. I used Joondalup as an example of where a club out of the mainstream of eastern state football politics had created an enduring successful pathway to advance the interests of the players and themselves as an entity. Now as a serious question, why do you always fall into anglo bashing and other bigotry? It spoils your otherwise insightful messaging. Good points made sir - and in the theme of breeding kids locally then to go offshore in some case’s possibly dual passports I’m surprised roosty hasn’t come in this all loud and abusive like in similar discussions they are poaching local kids with parents who have links of all places the UK, maybe being Anglo may be alright. I'll try and summon lol State clubs here have so many talented multicultural kids that get overlooked in the process here, the clubs should be the ones developing networks with pro clubs all over europe, not parents. There is no harm creating numerous pathways for all of our youth. Any kid that has an eligible secondary nationality should be considering the option heading to: Africa/Carib/French Pacific -> France (Cotonou Agreement) Former spanish colonies -> Spain (2 year citizenship) EU -> speaks for itself UK -> Joondalup method We should be spreading our wings and breaking the system completely that is in-place. Send them everywhere.
Everybodys favourite lurker.
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LFC.
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+xThey have identified that the youth pathway is lacking (and seemingly that have worked out that it is costing them money). With the NST competition proposed for March to September there will be a youth development gap that they can fill with a resumption and expansion of their youth league from October to February. Reading into it, I am guessing that they have suddenly identified that their is a goldmine in contracting promising young players, advancing their careers and on-selling their contracts. That's sort of a "FMD, at last!" moment right there. Perhaps they are feeling a little uncomfortable about who will actually own those contracts? Maybe somebody said " why aren't we doing what Joondalup has been doing for decades?" I can imagine the blank faces and the "what's a Joondalup?" moment. I can imagine the horror when they realised they can be completely bypassed and the further realisation that there is a burgeoning market coming and they will be the customer and not the seller. Did I mention that they feel hurt because there is a lack of respect toward their highnesses? Haha Do you know exactly what Joondalup is about? Do you really think they are "contracting" their young players??? I daresay not one of their players that got sent to the UK has ever been contracted by Joondalup. The kids went before even turning 18. They have benefitted from expat families living in the area and the young lads managing to go back to the UK while underage because they mostly have a British passport. And anyone that knows Perth knows it's Little Britain up that way. They kids simply get slot into the youth teams in the UK and some of them make it which gives Joondalup a fee. If they make it. But I'd also hazard a guess, not one kid from Joondalup that went to the UK ONLY had an Aussie passport. They wouldn't bypass the FIFA rules then. Trying to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth is false. I didn't "try to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth". You managed that by yourself. I used Joondalup as an example of where a club out of the mainstream of eastern state football politics had created an enduring successful pathway to advance the interests of the players and themselves as an entity. Now as a serious question, why do you always fall into anglo bashing and other bigotry? It spoils your otherwise insightful messaging. Good points made sir - and in the theme of breeding kids locally then to go offshore in some case’s possibly dual passports I’m surprised roosty hasn’t come in this all loud and abusive like in similar discussions they are poaching local kids with parents who have links of all places the UK, maybe being Anglo may be alright.
Love Football
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SWandP
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xThey have identified that the youth pathway is lacking (and seemingly that have worked out that it is costing them money). With the NST competition proposed for March to September there will be a youth development gap that they can fill with a resumption and expansion of their youth league from October to February. Reading into it, I am guessing that they have suddenly identified that their is a goldmine in contracting promising young players, advancing their careers and on-selling their contracts. That's sort of a "FMD, at last!" moment right there. Perhaps they are feeling a little uncomfortable about who will actually own those contracts? Maybe somebody said " why aren't we doing what Joondalup has been doing for decades?" I can imagine the blank faces and the "what's a Joondalup?" moment. I can imagine the horror when they realised they can be completely bypassed and the further realisation that there is a burgeoning market coming and they will be the customer and not the seller. Did I mention that they feel hurt because there is a lack of respect toward their highnesses? Haha Do you know exactly what Joondalup is about? Do you really think they are "contracting" their young players??? I daresay not one of their players that got sent to the UK has ever been contracted by Joondalup. The kids went before even turning 18. They have benefitted from expat families living in the area and the young lads managing to go back to the UK while underage because they mostly have a British passport. And anyone that knows Perth knows it's Little Britain up that way. They kids simply get slot into the youth teams in the UK and some of them make it which gives Joondalup a fee. If they make it. But I'd also hazard a guess, not one kid from Joondalup that went to the UK ONLY had an Aussie passport. They wouldn't bypass the FIFA rules then. Trying to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth is false. I didn't "try to equate this success for Joondalup to contracting youth". You managed that by yourself. I used Joondalup as an example of where a club out of the mainstream of eastern state football politics had created an enduring successful pathway to advance the interests of the players and themselves as an entity. Now as a serious question, why do you always fall into anglo bashing and other bigotry? It spoils your otherwise insightful messaging.
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TheDjentleman
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 362,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xIn the big picture looking at all this just really shows no matter the good points finally having a Pro comp and more, drew new crowds originally and money a closed comp has been a experiment that has failed the game down to grass roots where it all begins in the first place. The lack of considering this only to focus on the top has come to bite the outset of the game overall to move ahead together and develop links top to bottom as normally occurs. It no matter right and wrong before NSL this is the now and past 17yrs. NST will have its hurdles a plenty and to look to build below even more, its a absolute mess trying to move ahead due to all the barriers and motives from one level of admin to another. Mosh pit and a half. A closed comp has been in play longer than the 17 years the A-league has been in place. By and large the NSL was a closed comp as well. The challenges the aleague faces is not due to it being a closed comp. That's just an argument for people with an agenda. The expectations of the NST will practically rule out all NPL clubs. There'll be applicants I have no doubt. But most of them will be dreamers like the west Adelaide and Freo A-league bids back in 2018. An NST can be implemented, but the expectations need to be reduced because it is important to get it up and running. But I don't think the powers that be are that keen to implement it. Regardless of the rhetoric coming from JJ yer that it was the past is the past (NSL) - yes closed comp is the challenge for its only openning to new bids/entities that is proving its not working barring the exceptions. This little place is nothing like the USA that can sustain a product to the mass's. Our population and DNA is so different to the yanks regards sport. Even though the NST requirements maybe OTT I think making sure to meet a standard is whats needed period considering the issues of the past 30yrs. Sure some Clubs are no where near it (dreamers) BUT at least 30 have thrown their hat in the ring, this will sort out the have's and have nots. Importantly the have not's will know where they need to be to have a chance in the future. Yep no doubt about it there will be resistance from within and more so the APL throwing in their dis content as Townsend has mentioned his annoyance of exclusion to content to date.
We're good at shooting ourselves on the foot - those opposed should have shame.By the way well said MSC above. Thanks mate, we both want this thing to get off the ground as soon as possible, as do many many others... The APL protectionism is just so shit, worse than any of the bad ol effnik bogey men some on here like to hate on... I just wish some could see it for what it is, thats all. The latest hurdle to NST now is the rumour that 2 or 3 state FAs are refusing to budge in regards to relegation back into the NPL.. Basically saying that if any clubs from their state pull out of the NPL then if the NST "experiment" fails in 2-3 years then any club would have to re-jointhe football pyramid back at the lowest possible state league... This is for SURE going to make a few of the smaller clubs think twice about applying FFS. To explain, so if South, Knights and Bergers pull out of NPL VIC1 to join NST next year and it fails in 2-3 years, they would only be allowed back into State 4 Victoria the following season ........ I guess only plastic farking garbage franchises can skip the queue eh?? FFS I hate these muppets so badly sometimes... This is, apparently the REAL reason why pro/rel to NPL wont happen from day dot, because 2-3 fuckin little state shitty federations are going to lose their "wog cash cows" from NPL and are bitter about it .... HAHAHAHAHAAH we can never ever win in this country., That is super dogshit. Hoping that the NST clubs can put B-team or 20s team lower down in the pyramid. If the plastics can do it, I don't see why not? Could be a safety net to ease the damage in case the NST do collapse (hope not). FFS MSC, I agree the precedent has been set in recent times and the Feds allowed it ? or had they been forced ?, look at Bulls buying a existing NPL1 Club so as they got straight into the door. Why is VPL so diff to ours ? none are in 1's down there, Feds doing it their way. Amazing how many hoops that appear and curve balls. TBH TheDjentleman I agree the Feds should allow the exiting Club enter another squad - win win imo, that Club has supported the system since its inception, wake up you tossers. Yeah and if A-League teams can't promote youth teams into the NST, then block the NST youth teams from getting promoted into the NPL so there is a division gap. If the club collapses in the NST, they can just migrate to the position of the B-team and work their way back into the NPL. Sounds fair to me and honestly something that would happen elsewhere in the world. I am guessing fixture arrangements might need work but I am sure it's doable or hopefully beneficial...
Everybodys favourite lurker.
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LFC.
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+xIn the big picture looking at all this just really shows no matter the good points finally having a Pro comp and more, drew new crowds originally and money a closed comp has been a experiment that has failed the game down to grass roots where it all begins in the first place. The lack of considering this only to focus on the top has come to bite the outset of the game overall to move ahead together and develop links top to bottom as normally occurs. It no matter right and wrong before NSL this is the now and past 17yrs. NST will have its hurdles a plenty and to look to build below even more, its a absolute mess trying to move ahead due to all the barriers and motives from one level of admin to another. Mosh pit and a half. A closed comp has been in play longer than the 17 years the A-league has been in place. By and large the NSL was a closed comp as well. The challenges the aleague faces is not due to it being a closed comp. That's just an argument for people with an agenda. The expectations of the NST will practically rule out all NPL clubs. There'll be applicants I have no doubt. But most of them will be dreamers like the west Adelaide and Freo A-league bids back in 2018. An NST can be implemented, but the expectations need to be reduced because it is important to get it up and running. But I don't think the powers that be are that keen to implement it. Regardless of the rhetoric coming from JJ yer that it was the past is the past (NSL) - yes closed comp is the challenge for its only openning to new bids/entities that is proving its not working barring the exceptions. This little place is nothing like the USA that can sustain a product to the mass's. Our population and DNA is so different to the yanks regards sport. Even though the NST requirements maybe OTT I think making sure to meet a standard is whats needed period considering the issues of the past 30yrs. Sure some Clubs are no where near it (dreamers) BUT at least 30 have thrown their hat in the ring, this will sort out the have's and have nots. Importantly the have not's will know where they need to be to have a chance in the future. Yep no doubt about it there will be resistance from within and more so the APL throwing in their dis content as Townsend has mentioned his annoyance of exclusion to content to date.
We're good at shooting ourselves on the foot - those opposed should have shame.By the way well said MSC above. Thanks mate, we both want this thing to get off the ground as soon as possible, as do many many others... The APL protectionism is just so shit, worse than any of the bad ol effnik bogey men some on here like to hate on... I just wish some could see it for what it is, thats all. The latest hurdle to NST now is the rumour that 2 or 3 state FAs are refusing to budge in regards to relegation back into the NPL.. Basically saying that if any clubs from their state pull out of the NPL then if the NST "experiment" fails in 2-3 years then any club would have to re-jointhe football pyramid back at the lowest possible state league... This is for SURE going to make a few of the smaller clubs think twice about applying FFS. To explain, so if South, Knights and Bergers pull out of NPL VIC1 to join NST next year and it fails in 2-3 years, they would only be allowed back into State 4 Victoria the following season ........ I guess only plastic farking garbage franchises can skip the queue eh?? FFS I hate these muppets so badly sometimes... This is, apparently the REAL reason why pro/rel to NPL wont happen from day dot, because 2-3 fuckin little state shitty federations are going to lose their "wog cash cows" from NPL and are bitter about it .... HAHAHAHAHAAH we can never ever win in this country., That is super dogshit. Hoping that the NST clubs can put B-team or 20s team lower down in the pyramid. If the plastics can do it, I don't see why not? Could be a safety net to ease the damage in case the NST do collapse (hope not). FFS MSC, I agree the precedent has been set in recent times and the Feds allowed it ? or had they been forced ?, look at Bulls buying a existing NPL1 Club so as they got straight into the door. Why is VPL so diff to ours ? none are in 1's down there, Feds doing it their way. Amazing how many hoops that appear and curve balls. TBH TheDjentleman I agree the Feds should allow the exiting Club enter another squad - win win imo, that Club has supported the system since its inception, wake up you tossers.
Love Football
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