The criteria are to determine who starts, not finishes

I have an idea! Why don’t we select teams for the NSD based on merit? I know it’s crazy but … work out roughly a state mix based on population/participation/strength and then the order you finished in your state league is the order in which you get the opportunity to say “yes” or “no”. Sounds weird eh, that you’d base participation on how good you were at playing football- a bit in-Australian.
These artificial requirements being placed on clubs is just another way to perpetuate that those in charge get to pick their favourites and so avoid the most basic ideal of having the best football teams play at the highest level.

numki, you play with matchbox cars and dolls and have a collection of giraffes? There is nothing wrong with collecting giraffes btw!

Look out Davide, you seem to have a stalker.

David spell your name right not Davide!. You single? 

Currently the NPL is considered the National Second Tier.
They use the NST to demonstrate the level, as NPL will become the National Third Tier.

By using NST instead of NSD it obsolves them of the obligation of P/R to the AL.

Step away from the pipe my friend

Aaron, Aaron Mooy...Aaron, Aaron Mooy....

aha some people 

glad you asked for seeing NST here and there I wondering WTF is this hahaha

Meh don't like your explanation Footyball but lets wait and see.
Sometimes this thread drives me bonkers with all the what ifs and scenarios, can't wait to see some fact asap after the EOI process and confirmation from the FA.
Mind you I expect many of us will moan and groan haha

NSD is supposed to be correctly used in conjunction with pro/rel. NST is just means another level down. No pro/rel.

 thanks man

The FA EOI doc uses the term National Second Tier (NST)

Guys, what's NST as opposed NSD?
I have seen people using it this week after years of using NSD.
Tier?

The rates are commercial so they are lower than what the general public pays. When it comes to air travel, the FA will have a commercial deal with one of the Airlines. All the flights for all of the national teams, the future NST and any other FA support/admin staff is essentially be bundled together for a bulk pricing. The same goes with accomodation. They will have an agreement with a hotel chain(s) and receive better rates as they are purchasing alot. In 18/19 the FFA travel expenses for the A-League, W-League and Youth League was only $3.7m. That includes international travel to NZ and also includes road travel expenses. If we average that across the 3 leagues, it's $16.3k per game.  Based on that, and knowing there will almost certainly be more clubs based in NSW and VIC and no international travel, we can safely estimate that the travel expenses will be between $1-2m depending on how many clubs are selected. I'd be pretty certain that travel expenses would be under 1.5. In the scheme of things travel is not a high expense for the NST, even with a team based in Perth. 

Travel costs are quite high at the moment.
I'm going to Melbourne in the next couple of weeks, and airfares plus three nights 3.5 star accommodation  sets you back 2 grand before you even worry about dining and spending money.

If you're travelling with a crew of, I don't' know, 16-17 players plus minimal coaching staff of 3 0r 4, that's 20 people, and I can't see that you are getting any change out of $30,000 if you're staying overnight.

This is why we're likely to see almost all the teams located in NSW/Vic.

Canberra needs to have a team in the NSD. Whether it's Canberra Croatia or Canberra United new men's side etc. I feel they need to be represented. 

Before covid, MEL-SYD was the highest patronised flight route. In. The. World. 

I know people are in love with the "Australia is really big" argument, but in reality, travel costs in Australia are not much more than in a small country. Travel times are not so much worse either except for in the extremes with travel to Perth. Think about it. You don't fly 200km to another city within many European countries. Hell, Liverpool just got flamed internationally for doing exactly that. Anyways, you'd spend more time in the airport waiting than you would spend driving the team in a bus. A plane holds 10 times more people than a bus. There's your marginal costs right there.

I agree with not including a Perth side upfront for a few reasons. Not necessarily just to protect the travel funds pool. I just don't think there are any particularly strong clubs there that contributed as much on a national level. For the obvious reason that the only one they have had is Perth Glory.

Funny we came up with almost exactly the same list (I just had Preston swapped in for Bentleigh, on the basis of their decent crowds).

The best solution for a Perth team, to my mind, is to grant one a spot (probably Perth Red Star), but delay its introduction a year or two so that initial travel costs are kept low. A Perth team and the top NPL side could be introduced as the first expansion round of the NSD.

Flights within the Bri-Syd-Mel-Ade corridor are actually pretty cheap, so without teams from Perth, NZ or NQ travel costs could be kept to a reasonable level.

So during peak NSL the club's couldn't go professional but now they can??
South Melb tried and nearly went bust. Reverted back to semi-pro after the Brazil money dried up. 

Why do we think now it is a viable option for these clubs to turn pro?
Crowds lower. Sponsorship lower. Costs higher. 

Why do we think a second tier will drive more $$$ and fans to it? 
Sports fans are not interested in second tier sports. Sponsors are not interested. Media isn't interested. 

This doesn't make sense. 

I'm all for a second division. But the criteria currently set (no doubt with PFA input) will cause the application process to fail. 

The only seats at GCU are in the dugout and the canteen verandah

Pretty sure the annual license fee will create the travel pool money for whole comp

Understand where you are coming from, but i cna assure you travel is only subsidised for these teams, not completely covered. 

The main reason why the ALY was canned was travel costs. it ended up being a conferenced structure when it ended because of this reason too. 

When you break it down it isnt a huge amount of travel i agree, however there needs to be strong financial backing for it to work for a WA team to be involved. 

The longer a team stays away from home also drives up costs as the organsiation will be up for hotel bills the entire time they are on the road. Plenty of factors to consider when the bulk of teams will be in VIC and NSW.

How do you know that? The FFA had no issues flying the ALM, ALW and ALY around the country. It doesn't cost anywhere near as much as people assume. Especially when it's only domestic and especially if some states have multiple teams (which is more than likely). Hypothetically let's use your 12 team league as an example. We'll also assume it's a home/away fixture which would be a 22 round competition. So that puts the total amount of games played at 132. You can then knock off 34, as the local NSW, local VIC and local QLD games do not require air travel. That leaves 98 games (maximum) that would require air travel. If they really wanted to penny pinch, that number could be reduced further by having teams play two away games in a row in a single state. Eg (R1 WW vs SM, R2 APIA vs SM). Then SM could have two home games to balance it out. It's also important to note that the FA don't pay the same airfares that we do. Airlines offer corporate deals for organisations that buy a bulk quantity of airfares over the course of the season.

^ reasonable guess

I would still love to see Canberra Croatia have a crack, merely from an asset point of view, they put the majority of Australian football clubs to shame, including at least half in the A-League

I think you can almost put a line through any Perth team, unless they work out a way where they can hub over in Melbourne and Sydney for parts of the season, which would be a significant cost. 

Id imagine 4 from Melbourne
South Melbourne
Heidelberg United
Melbourne Knights
Bentleigh Greens

5 from Sydney
Wollongong Wolves
Sydney Olympic
Marconi 
APIA
United 58

2 from QLD 
GCU
Peninsula Power

1 from SA
Adelaide City

The travel for Perth teams would be enormous if it was every second week. They wont be funded correctly for that. Unless they can do a deal with an airline it won't be worth it. 

I think it's very likely any 2nd division team in Adelaide will play at the new Gepps Cross facility the cup games were at.
It's a nice little ground and seemingly already has the lights for broadcast

isnt adelaide city borderline bankrupt?

There were expansion plans at Oakden pre covid but they didn't seem to go anywhere. I imagine if city make it this would be revisited. 

In the meantime I would think they would play at Marden or service FM stadium at Gepps Cross. 

Adelaide City was an NSL powerhouse but I don't like their chances of getting into the NSD if they are vying against other clubs with more suitable home grounds. Their facility at Oakden last I saw was a restaurant and a patch of dirt. That said, haven't lived in Adelaide for 15 years, but I know of no major works that have been completed there since.

Don't get me wrong, would love to see them in. Clubs with their history and contribution to the NT are at the heart of what the NSD is all about. I adored them as a kid.