The Australian National Football Team General Discussion*OFFICIAL*


The Australian National Football Team General Discussion*OFFICIAL*

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Enzo Bearzot
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josh sydneyfc - 24 Nov 2018 2:40 PM
I’m sick of this matching Asia technically crap. Yea sure, I 100% agree that we need to be better technically, no doubt about it. But why are we so obsessed with it. We have our own unique strengths that we should use more. We’re so obsessed with everyone else why can’t we just be obsessed with making what makes us good

Russia World Cup

Iran 4 points
Japan 4 points
Korea 3 points
Australia 1 point

That's 10 points why.

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I’m sick of this matching Asia technically crap.
Yea sure, I 100% agree that we need to be better technically, no doubt about it.

But why are we so obsessed with it. We have our own unique strengths that we should use more. We’re so obsessed with everyone else why can’t we just be obsessed with making what makes us good
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🚨 BIG NEWS! 🚨

According to the Sydney Morning Herald, the Macarthur South-West Sydney bid will look to sign Mile Jedinak as captain if it gains an A-League licence.

What a coup that would be!

From Facebook. Jedinak will hopefully return as he's not playing much for Villa. Would be awesome. 
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Derider - 24 Nov 2018 11:59 AM
I would say that most national teams have a player who can dribble a bit on his day. Their number 7 got past a very sluggish and out of sorts Sainsbury a couple of times. Congrats to him, I'm sure he's killing it in the Lebanese league. It just blows my mind that people are using that game to conclude that Lebanon is technically superior to the socceroos. There was absolutely no evidence of that. Their skill levels were generally poor and far below ours. 

Sainsbury was being applauded for his WC performances even against the eventual World Champions which got him a gig at a big Euro club.  Its not as if he was getting game time at a higher level then either. 

He was skinned by a guy who as you say is killing it in the Lebanese League.  There's your evidence.

Now either the Lebanese league is much better than we think, or that our players are not as good as we think or there are good players in the Lebanese League that are not given the opportunity.  Given the opportunity and resources our players have they should be better, a lot better.  Are they?

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I would say that most national teams have a player who can dribble a bit on his day. Their number 7 got past a very sluggish and out of sorts Sainsbury a couple of times. Congrats to him, I'm sure he's killing it in the Lebanese league. It just blows my mind that people are using that game to conclude that Lebanon is technically superior to the socceroos. There was absolutely no evidence of that. Their skill levels were generally poor and far below ours. 
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Derider - 24 Nov 2018 10:02 AM
It's insane that some of you think Lebanon is more skillful than Australia based on the other night's game. It was completely obvious that our technical skill levels are far above theirs. Frankly it's not even close. 

Their number 7 had extraordinary skill in 1v1 evasion and dribbling.

Why Australia is good at sustaining possession, is not so much skill on the ball, but it is due to positioning off it.

Players are constantly thinking ahead of  where to be to support the receiver and optimise the best position  in opening the most viable passing lanes.
Edited
7 Years Ago by Decentric
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Barca4Life - 24 Nov 2018 10:30 AM
Clearly the current Socceroos are the result of the OLD development system, the current joeys (u16) have a higher skill set than the national team players have come from the NEW development system.

I suspect we were playing catch up to the Asian technical level which is quite high at world standards.

True.

FFA Technical Department recognises how superior many Asian nations are compared to us technically. Even Lebanon's number 7 had fabulous close ball control and skinned Sains repeatedly. He was really good on the ball. 

Our advantage has been tactical nous, communication and cohesion, and, the team being greater than the individual parts that comprise the team.

Many Socceroos educated in the current HAL, and newer development system, can play better with each other , than with their club teammates in  many European countries.

With the amalgamation of the Dutch/French/German/Spanish methodology, even our senior players who've played plenty of HAL, yet educated in the old ad hoc system in their youth development,  have very good tactical education, despite a less technical education base.

All HAL coaches in recent times have been  well educated Aussie FFA trained, German, Spanish  or Dutch nationals. The notable  exception is  Alan Joyce, the only successful  English coach to ply his trade in the HAL.  



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jas88 - 23 Nov 2018 10:40 AM
grazorblade - 23 Nov 2018 5:37 AM

think your right.. when he plays for qpr(last time I saw anyways) he sits very deep almost like a sweeper and doesnt necessarily have to get up and down the pitch... which is what he use to do.. I think he's in a rut.. needs to move somewhere.. seeing him on the bench all the time is dissapointing. 

This can also be an issue with football education.

One enormous strength of Jedi, and  one of the few areas where he was superior to Milligan,  was he held defensive position very, very well in Ball Possession Opposition.

I was quite astonished when I watched him play EPL. Palace barely had the ball, but he maintained defensive position very well for sustained periods in BPO.

Conversely, Luongo has been educated as a box to box type midfielder in the English tradition of playing in two man midfields in flat midfield   4-4-2 formations. His defensive positioning, isn't as good when the team loses the ball in Defensive Transitions. 

Guus Hiddink had this problem with Frank Lampard at Chelsea. He was inculcated with running all over the pitch from his father, also a pro footballer.

Hiddink wanted  Lampard  in an advanced  forward position in a three person midfield. Lampard struggled. Hiddink had Makalele and Ballack doing more defensive  work .

Socceroo coaches like  Guus, Pim, Bert, and Arnie come from a Dutch tradition of having quite specific roles for specific positions. They are far better educated in tactics than most English coaches. Ange was in a different way too.

I'm not sure what Luongo's coaches in England have been requiring in his midfield  role in his teams?
Edited
7 Years Ago by Decentric
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Clearly the current Socceroos are the result of the OLD development system, the current joeys (u16) have a higher skill set than the national team players have come from the NEW development system.

I suspect we were playing catch up to the Asian technical level which is quite high at world standards.
Edited
7 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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It's insane that some of you think Lebanon is more skillful than Australia based on the other night's game. It was completely obvious that our technical skill levels are far above theirs. Frankly it's not even close. 
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jas88 - 22 Nov 2018 6:31 PM
Decentric - 22 Nov 2018 12:39 PM

This is what's wrong with the entire setup... yeah I get it they can run all day long... but can they do the basics? can they trap the ball? can they make a pass? can they actually look up when they are dribbling? can they shoot a target?  if they can't do these things... then it doesnt matter how long they run for.. I get we wanna press from the front but fuck me dead.. its just crazy you got every bloke playing for socceroos they got all the gear.. the gps vests, the special recovery goggles the flashy boots, but some of the semi-pro's playing for lebanon were more skillful.

Agree 100%.

The socceroos have and still get more money spent on them in one tournament than the Lebanese players families do in years, and they still lack the natural ability and fluency with the ball at their feet. 

Football is not rocket science.  There's a ball and there's your feet.  Do stuff with it.

Compare Leckie with the ball at his feet to the Lebanese captain who skinned Sainsbury.   Give that guy Leckie's opportunity and Leckie would be cleaning his boots in the change rooms.

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Alternatively, players like Taggart, Maclaren, even Juric to an extent. Just don't seem to be able to produce anything special. 

By that I mean, it's the NT shirt. You have to try and push yourself , get smart enough to either create an assist or fkn get yourself in a position to score. 


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RedKat - 23 Nov 2018 11:35 AM
highkick05 - 23 Nov 2018 11:20 AM

Playing at their clubs when theyre playing different systems to the national team with different types of players around him and different setups makes a world of difference to how you actually play. Use the club form to get them into the squad but from there knowing if they actually gel into the squad is completely different- look at how different Mooy and Rogic play club and national team. 

Yeah.. agree somewhat. These players have been around long enough to be flexible to certain tactics. It's baffling that they need to adjust to anything. I would think if they are good enough for a certain position they should be playing it. Luongo anf Mooy DMs , Nabbout is known quantity by now, awesome striker, Goodwin likewise.

It's like we DONT wnt goals or something. Giannou as Decentric was saying, intellegent around the box. (sigh)


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patjennings - 22 Nov 2018 6:09 PM
The thing is that the way GA is setting up the nominal wingers are playing more centrally and we are essentially playing with three strikers. The width comes from Risdon and Behich. More people in front of goal means more attempts which hopefully means more goals.

Considering our weakness is our lack of quality strikers and our strength is our defence (more precisely our defensive midfielders) then shouldn't we be playing a more defensive game? I always thought playing to your strengths was the best way to achieve success.


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Decentric - 22 Nov 2018 8:48 AM
In Ball Possession  Opposition, Australia played a flat midfield 4-4-2 most of the time.

 On occasions it looked like a bowl shaped midfield 4-4-2, or a 4-2-4.



......X...............X................X..................X


.....X.................X................X.................X


...............X..............................X

In the South K game, they initially used a half press version of this 4-4-2 in  BPO.

That is, they kept this shape compact, and didn't  really try that hard to win the ball back until the Socceroos went over the half way line.

Later after the goal, when SK realised that Australia was playing with the two FBs so high up  the pitch in Oz's Ball Possession, they increased the press to a Full Press. This is where a team tries to win the ball aggressively in the opponent's half.

Without the width of the Oz FBs closer in a line with the CBs, South K was able to force more turnovers, as Oz struggled to play out with just 2 CBs and 2 DMs.



Edited
7 Years Ago by Decentric
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playmaker11 - 23 Nov 2018 4:53 AM
Decentric - 22 Nov 2018 11:32 PM

“I spoke to Giannou last night and explained to him why he wasn’t in the squad for this one,” said Arnold.

“He did great for me in Kuwait but it’s more about me getting the opportunity to look at Jamie Maclaren and Andrew Nabbout.

“It’s about me being able to tick every box with these players and giving them the opportunity.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/apostolos-giannou-has-been-left-out-of-graham-arnolds-latest-socceroos-squad/news-story/60332747ebf6c81630dcebb1a20c949f


Like Highkick, I'm perplexed over this thinking from Arnie.

I suggest keeping Giannou around the squad.
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patjennings - 22 Nov 2018 6:09 PM
The thing is that the way GA is setting up the nominal wingers are playing more centrally and we are essentially playing with three strikers. The width comes from Risdon and Behich. More people in front of goal means more attempts which hopefully means more goals.

this is really the problem we have had recently. as it is the fullbacks that have been our only, outlet we have resorted to crosses into the box from wide positions to "create" our chances. that is fine when you have the aerial threat of Cahill up front but is not really going to be high reward with our current crop of front players. none of them are really suited to this style of play so we will have heaps of balls into the box and "chances" but very low goals scored. 

the front 3 need early balls balls slipped through behind the more central defence from the 10 or 6 which just has not happened as he gaffer has us playing a more slow possession build up style. so we are forced back into the lofted balls into the box from our wing backs. this also doesn't really suite our "wingers" who tend to be more out and out wingers rather than narrow players. 

the best we have looked play wise was in the Asian cup where we played with out and out wingers and mostly 1 DM and really more 2 AM's where luongo was playing his more suited role of mobile box to box AM. since then we have reverted back to 2 DMs and have not looked anywhere near as good. Now more than ever i think we should be going back to that sort of play as we just do not have the aerial threat up front to sustain the slow possession build up leading to crosses from the wingbacks. we have a crop of out and out wingers (Leckie, Mabil, Boyle, Kruse) and creative players that can play the AMs (Rogic and Luongo) with Mooy covering the DM duties. our wing backs can get forward but they dont have to bomb on everytime to be the focal point of our attack. that should make us a bit less vulnerable to the counter and actually plays to the strengths of our strikers (mclaren, Juric, Gianou Nabout) where they dont have to compete for space up front or act as playmakers, just act as poachers. 
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highkick05 - 23 Nov 2018 11:20 AM
playmaker11 - 23 Nov 2018 4:53 AM

This style or philosophy of 'looking at players' is completely bullshit. I mean what if one is playing more than the other. 

Serious, they play at their clubs and that should be enough to go on. Using this philosophy is unintellegent and potentially just makes it twice as hard to pick a player imo

Playing at their clubs when theyre playing different systems to the national team with different types of players around him and different setups makes a world of difference to how you actually play. Use the club form to get them into the squad but from there knowing if they actually gel into the squad is completely different- look at how different Mooy and Rogic play club and national team. 

ARNIE= LEGEND

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Decentric - 22 Nov 2018 11:34 PM
highkick05 - 22 Nov 2018 7:34 PM

Risdon.

Yeah that would be my call only based on highlights of the Lebanon game. I did not watch the full match.

Wish to god I watched both, Risdon has had similar games for Perth Glory, where he really bossed that position.

Specifically, intercepting play, going forward and contributing to build up. Was a good surprise to hear he did in the NT.


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playmaker11 - 23 Nov 2018 4:53 AM
Decentric - 22 Nov 2018 11:32 PM

“I spoke to Giannou last night and explained to him why he wasn’t in the squad for this one,” said Arnold.

“He did great for me in Kuwait but it’s more about me getting the opportunity to look at Jamie Maclaren and Andrew Nabbout.

“It’s about me being able to tick every box with these players and giving them the opportunity.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/apostolos-giannou-has-been-left-out-of-graham-arnolds-latest-socceroos-squad/news-story/60332747ebf6c81630dcebb1a20c949f


This style or philosophy of 'looking at players' is completely bullshit. I mean what if one is playing more than the other. 

Serious, they play at their clubs and that should be enough to go on. Using this philosophy is unintellegent and potentially just makes it twice as hard to pick a player imo


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grazorblade - 23 Nov 2018 5:37 AM
Luongo's main problem has been positioning, he often isn't in place to defend against the cut back or the long shot

When he has the ball or is near an opponent with the ball he does well

think your right.. when he plays for qpr(last time I saw anyways) he sits very deep almost like a sweeper and doesnt necessarily have to get up and down the pitch... which is what he use to do.. I think he's in a rut.. needs to move somewhere.. seeing him on the bench all the time is dissapointing. 
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Luongo's main problem has been positioning, he often isn't in place to defend against the cut back or the long shot

When he has the ball or is near an opponent with the ball he does well
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Decentric - 22 Nov 2018 11:32 PM
sokorny - 22 Nov 2018 3:57 PM

Just having a look at the  Kuwait game again, Giannou is our current best target  striker.

The goal he scored was a beauty. It oozed class.

I'm not sure why he wasn't playing against South K and Lebanon? Unless he is currently injured.

“I spoke to Giannou last night and explained to him why he wasn’t in the squad for this one,” said Arnold.

“He did great for me in Kuwait but it’s more about me getting the opportunity to look at Jamie Maclaren and Andrew Nabbout.

“It’s about me being able to tick every box with these players and giving them the opportunity.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/apostolos-giannou-has-been-left-out-of-graham-arnolds-latest-socceroos-squad/news-story/60332747ebf6c81630dcebb1a20c949f



By now, American Samoa must have realised that Australias 22-0 win over Tonga two days earlier was no fluke.

Edited
7 Years Ago by playmaker11
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Luongo is still an absolute gem. His worst game was vs Germany in Russia but quickly redeemed himself against Chile.

He was so good away to Honduras on that cow paddock. Full games against Colombia and Czech Republic with the former bringing a MOM performance. First half vs Hungary just fine only to get shafted all tournament in Russia.

Full 90 under Arnold against Kuwait and South Korea. It's actually a shame he wasn't picked up by a better club so soon after the Asian Cup. QPR have had terrible managers and don't particularly play a style he's suited too. How I'd want to turn back time and see him get signed to Italy somewhere in that player of the tournament form.
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At this stage choosing Luongo over Rogic would be a calculated risk worth taking.
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highkick05 - 22 Nov 2018 7:34 PM
So who ended up being better Rhyan or Risdon ?

I don't know who played better ...

Risdon.
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n i k o - 22 Nov 2018 11:07 PM
Funny Luongo keeps ending up in many people's lineups yet he can't get on the pitch under 2 managers so far.

It was the only thing that puzzled me in Bert's tenure.
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sokorny - 22 Nov 2018 3:57 PM
Decentric - 22 Nov 2018 3:52 PM

I just think Giannou might need an extended run ... he is in and out of the squad, so hasn't been able to get the confidence up IMO (feeling more part of the squad too he may be more encouraged to shoot ...His finish seems more polished than Juric, better with the ball at his feet and faster.

Just having a look at the  Kuwait game again, Giannou is our current best target  striker.

The goal he scored was a beauty. It oozed class.

I'm not sure why he wasn't playing against South K and Lebanon? Unless he is currently injured.
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n i k o - 22 Nov 2018 11:07 PM
Funny Luongo keeps ending up in many people's lineups yet he can't get on the pitch under 2 managers so far.

Only cos no Jedi mate.


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Funny Luongo keeps ending up in many people's lineups yet he can't get on the pitch under 2 managers so far.
GO


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