Again, thats not correct. People are mortal and their time in a football team is finite, particularly in the AFL where the retirement age isnt much higher than 30

The reason why AFL teams cant go beyond 5 years at the top is because draft picks are given to the crap teams. Since there is a draft system it means teams at the top have no means of turning over their players as part of a natural cycle. If the AFL didnt have a draft system then you would see super clubs just like you did before the game even became professional (a time you seem to forgot even existed)

The 4+1 rule stops us becoming like Europe. It means clubs are either going to be paying more for the same players (which contrary to popular belief isnt worth the pay off) or there are enough players to make more bigger teams and medium teams. But there will always be teams at the bottom

The J League as a 20 year comp has had 9 winners which isnt much different to the AFL stat you posted. Because unlike Europe the best clubs have to blood hometown talent which is much harder than simply buying the best players as you see in Europe. I noticed you steered clear of relevant examples and hand picked the one that suited your agenda the most

As I said. A salary cap is literally used for regulating player payments. Thats it. For leagues that dont control the payment market, the time tested system is a 3+1 or 4+1 rule. It allows a sense of fairness but doesnt destroy the quality of the league, drag the big clubs down, or upset the natural player movement cycle. Who would have thought there is more than one solution to a problem?

The A League has both. One system is a big fat placebo and it effectively nullifies the other

Can I ask why it seems to matter to people how many teams win championships over a set amount of time? Is the consensus that more people will watch if the final table standings are totally unpredictable every year? Is it a gambling/ betting thing like handicapping in horse racing?  Most other leagues I watch are fairly predictable in their final outcome but dont seem to suffer in popularity..... Is this a "fair go skip" thing that Im just not aware of?

I’m impressed by the quality of the matches this season.
This is a really good standard league.
Todays games were both good to watch and full of skill 

During a normal season a team might get, say 85% of their support. In a bad season about 70% of their support. And in a good season up to 100% of their support. Glory hunting is inevitable, as is dropping off when a team is doing poor. The success of a league is the size of the 70%-85% as thats what it will be like for most teams most of the time

When the AFL wanted to enter the non Victorian markets there was a huge gap in quality because they had stolen all the players. Basically they couldnt compete. It would be like having state league teams in the A League of their current size. It would pretty much be a non spectacle and as a result you wouldnt get the interest or revenue. So they decided to artificially boost the competitiveness of the non Victorian markets. The NRL did similar with the Storm

If you want me to race against Bolt and it to be a close race, you cant make me run faster, you can only make him run slower. So effectively you are dragging the quality of the competition down to make the lesser teams achieve more. And as mentioned above, this isnt with a salary cap which serves a different point. This is with concessions and draft picks


The A League was stupid to try this approach. Unlike the other codes we are a national game with title winners in all major cities during the NSL era. As a new game we dont have a sizable 70%-85% so when our biggest markets are at the bottom and their fans drop off the impact is greater. Also trying to artificially boost one or two strategic markets at a time has some sense but its impossible for every market at once given there can only be about 3 successful teams each season

Again, it was simply stealing a strategy from another code without fully understanding its purpose


There is no evidence Australians wont support a natural competitive league. It is simply a myth. The proof of this is more Australians support the EPL than the A League. The proof of this is we have never seen crowds drop off to zero for teams that give up the goat a third of the way through the season. We'll never know how many Melbournians will watch the NRL if they had to punch above their weight, and whether the loss of glory hunter fans outweighs the gains in the other markets

Until the FFA start taking an axe to these myths, the progress of the game will always be hindered because it will always have to pander towards a few sacred things no matter what shape it takes. This is why I have long said we need to buy in external expertise. People who dont immediately think we need a salary cap even though we have a 4+1 rule. People who dont immediately think new teams should have a chance of winning their first season. We should set up a natural competitive league and then see what problems present

Again, the AFL draft system can only work in the context of a salary cap.  There is nothing stopping a wealthy club making an offer that the smaller club and the draftee simply cannot refuse at a later time after the draft.

Richmond have been shit for longer than the draft system has existed, despite their high draft picks over the years for being shit..  That's because the people managing the club and choosing and developing the players to draft have until recently been bad at their job.  The draft does not guarantee success.  But if you have the money to simply buy the best players well you can see what happens in the EPL, La Liga and Bundesliga.  That does almost certainly guarantees success.  We see that in Europe.

Now it may be that a lob-side competition is the natural outcome of a successful professional football league.  Maybe that's what the people want-predictable winners and losers and the odd "upset" to "prove" that sometimes the little can do it..

But if that's you want, then that's what you want, and that's what you will get-just be honest about it.

In most other leagues, there two types of fans: those who have real connections to the club, and the glory hunters. Plenty of Gen X Liverpool fans who have never stepped a foot in Liverpool, because in their childhood Liverpool dominated.  Plenty of 20-soemthings who are Man U fans because in their childhood, Man U dominated,

I'm not saying that it shouldn't happen. 

You may be right- maybe lob-sided, predictable David V Goliath battles are the type of leagues people want to see and are willing to pay for.  But lets be clear that that is what we will get and are in fact aiming for and in the end if that's what brings in the money so be it.

Thats right. The AFL first established a salary cap and then added a draft system and concessions system so it can determine who wins. Without a draft system there wouldnt be balance

We have seen the AFL before it became professional and there were big clubs and small clubs. Not only that but the league grew in interest year after year after year. The AFL rigging the comp was nothing more than pre-empting whether or not non-Victorian teams will support a league if they cant win it. No interstate money, no revenue from 4 major states

Having 4 or 5 good teams for a period of time isnt predictable or boring. Its sport. We see it in every sport and every league. But over a period of time as the competition grows and opportunities arise in different areas we see a shift in the balance of power

Competitive sport isnt something to be feared. Sport is a multi billion dollar industry and Australia's interest is not just in its own rigged leagues but leagues around the world. CFG wouldnt be here if they didnt see value in the Australian sports market for their own team

The AFL's solution to the non Victorian markets and the NRL's solution to the Victorian market has to be taken with a grain of salt. We have a 4+1 rule to stop unfair spending and with the bulk of our players being Aussie talent our league wont look much different to Japan, or the AFL before it went professional

It was nice hearing Joe Lolley on the Gegenpod speak highly of his first impressions. I enjoy it when someone comes here with their good age and confidence but quickly learns it's not a holiday here. Of course I expect him to do quite well here.

I saw an ad for Paramount on 10 and it just fell flat on me. It's nowhere near the ads of the past like with The Presets. With the new Allianz hopefully most of Sydney can get on board for Sydney FC and the numerous teams across NSW will see good travelling support not to mention the rest of the league hopefully getting to away games. 

football is not a boring sport it is the most popular sport on the planet but people are allowed there opinion - i just watched the AFL GF and it was more boring then a 0-0 draw with no shots on target

as for the league being shit depends on the sigma - if it is just blatant/ignorant the A league is shit i dont take notices most people who say that dont watch football. if it is the A league is shit because there is no proper structure no P/R, Shit development, shit salary cap, NSL was better, the clubs are plastic etc i normally agree with them i hate the league structure and the FA i reckon the whole needs to be redone 

if we just got rid of the cap and added P/R the league would be 10x better then it is now 

Why do people in Australia need to be told via advertising when a league starts, whether it be Aussie rules, Rugby or Football for that matter ?
In this day and age when people are never off the internet everyone if they want to know should know, Yes ?
If you love sport you will know when a season starts, maybe not the exact date, but you will know otherwise you are a fake supporter.

Well that's right. Should we even bother about those types who post on social media after a national team game that they didn't even know it was on? You'd think they'd come across these things being online yet there are still a lot of oblivious and poorly organised people who occasionally go to games. 

Just watching a good U17 game at the local park can be a great day out with family and friends.
So if that is a good day out, of course the A-League can be a good day or night out.
That goes without saying.
It's really about the level of connection.
If the connection is not strong enough, it won't withstand disruptions like 2 years of COVID, etc.
Also the level of "buzz" is a natural phenomenon, it's not artificially created, it either exists because it exists or it doesn't.
My feeling is that the level of "buzz" has never, ever been lower than it is right now, a week out from the start of an A-League season.

I reckon there’s a real buzz around the Mariners, with Kuol (super talent) and Cummings (great character).

I’m keen to watch them and typically I don’t watch ALM teams other than MV.

At last, some positivity. Enjoy the season mate.

Yeh, I don't know man.
Let's just take this board alone.  Once upon a time, a week out from the season, and there would have been a couple of thousand daily posts from hundreds of different posters.
Or, let's take The Roar board, there's one A-League article from 3 days ago, from their prime football writer, and it's had 17 comments.  I kid you not.
The TWG site would have carried a bit of A-League news in amongst it's Euro coverage.
Fox Sports would have been providing coverage on its 24/7 sports news channel, and at least one-mid week show would have started rolling by now.
Apart from Keep Up, there really isn't a lot happening.
You're a Victory fan, remember there used to be a supporter owned and run forum.  It was massive, probably as big as any other Australian football forum back in the day.  It's gone, hasn't been replaced with anything.  There are these sorts of indicators everywhere.

So let's just focus on that.
No need to try and enjoy some of the positives the leagues gunna bring. Let's concentrate on the fact that we have had Gallop, a broadcaster shitting on us and a once in a century pandamic.

Ha!  Go to the myfootball channel on youtube and watch some A League highlights and there'll be 15 page views after 4 or 5 days following a match.

Same as anything on twitter regards the A-League. 20 or so likes. Meanwhile the NRL and AFL have 10's of thousands of view, likes, etc.

The facts are not many people care. (Which is a shame.)

So   disappointing ,   isn' t  it ?

It   really   makes   you   wonder ,  what   are   the  FA  and  APL   doing ... ?

The  game   seems   almost    invisible   these   days ...

For   example ,  you' d    think    they   would   be   advertising   the   you- know -  what    out    of   the   Australia  cup    final  & getting  a   sellout   crowd ... but   coverage  of   it   seems   almost  non - existent ??

At first I didn't understand what you were saying by the 15 page views.  I'm sure they're just the stragglers, the worst case scenario, but still, not a very flattering number.

I just noticed an AFL preliminary final from 11 days ago has had 87k (which is just ok to be honest).
The A-League grand final, from 4 months ago, on the official channel, has had 3k.

This is another old thread, but still a relevant question.

The nature of commentary on football (I have no idea about other sports but expect them to be the same) has shifted from the structured forum to whatever current media platform individuals use. If you are on Twitter, Facebook or whatever new ones I don't remember the names of there are always comments about football stuff.

On this forum, proclaimed dead many times over, you just have to look down at the bottom of a page to see that there might only be a handful of member posters but there are always a larger number of guests. They do not need to post in threads to get entertainment or information out of the forum - but they are there out of interest.

Sure, it isn't the hundreds who used to post here - but do you actually post in here because it makes you feel important (judged by numbers) or because you find some element of the discussion interesting, enlightening, or simply a release of frustration and a platform to have your own message heard?

The Roar thread mentioned above has regular viewing and participation by members and guests but it has become a place that people comment in only when they actually have news or something to discuss. The article about Brown, for my own personal opinion, does not warrant comment. It has happened, we know bugger all about the back end of it, probably never will, and we have no idea what happens next. There is not a lot of team news at the moment and our forum numbers are split between people who are frustrated and doubtful about our prospects this season, and hopeful and doubtful about our prospects this season. Until we have a game to gauge us we would be just saying the same stuff in the thread that we have already discussed at length.

For the record - I am hopeful that this will be a bloody good season for us, think we have enough in us to do it, and know that until we are tested it is my usual blind orange bais speaking.

Once the season starts and we have games to comment on, I am sure there will be plenty of discussion again.

For the question - I still don't care what people think about the aleagues - I count on the quality of players and quality of play to mould opinions on the league and as it warrants a greater following it will build it.

Wow, even the NPLVIC grand final from 2 x weeks ago (cursed be the day it was ever played)  had 5k views..... thats pretty poor engagement on youtube, wonder why?
https://www.youtube.com/user/NPLVictoria/videos

Sorry mate, that reads like something that Andrew Bott ot Rita Panahi would write.
I think a lot of people care about the game.
My view is that the AL misses the point of football.
That being its a Club game and about Club culture.

We somehow talk about AL and APL like the way they talk about AFL and NRL.

The fact is most people follow and have an emotional attachment to a Club. Not AL not APL.

I think we've been missing the forrest for trees.

I love the A league. I just wish it could be all it could be and more than it is.

We're being held back by a combination of lack of ambition and fear.

i 'dont mind the A League' if the competition was 'more' and by more i meant a proper professional competition i might love it 

It's difficult to define what makes a League popular or successful. 
Having a reasonable chance at being entertained will attract new bums to seats and new eyes to the screen.  Keeping them there requires more than the odd sugar hit.  It requires intellectual respect for the viewer no matter the origin of the club.

It doesn't take a miracle to get a crowd to a game that is promising entertainment.  Have a look at the stats for this game played this week between youtubers you have never heard of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv8Ir8jYa44

It is more difficult to make a League entertaining and worthwhile.  To engage a person to invest their time and interest over the long term requires a reciprocal investment from the League into its supporters.  Treating them like fools, easy money and too often like cattle, means that all the other investment to bring them in is lost and this perhaps forever.
Sham fan meetings.  Cheap scarves and shirts at high prices. Spammed email boxes.  Selling identity information to advertisers. Public in-fighting.  Scandals about not paying bills.  Abusive and snide remarks about the rest (recreational interests) of the game including demanding entry into their leagues, suggestions of taxing them to pay professionals, and scheming to poach their players without compensation.  All hallmarks of the last 5 years at least.

I am amazed at all the bile I see thrown at one or two administrators.  A supporter makes their personal contract with a club.  If the clubs consistently treat their customers like trash they will never recover let alone thrive.

Good luck to them.  I can't wish them anything more positive than that.

Absolutely correct Mark. A lot to like with youth as well.

yer your pov is more logical whereas MFC post is typical of today even though his post is over a year old.......
Some of his comments just don't compute might I add.
Watching EPL or CL for the "cool" factor, as if those types are getting up between the hours of 2am to 6am to watch live games.

We have countless people who care about football its evident by the amount of NPL/Association Clubs all round the country.
Many are lifetime members for eg or 10/20/30yr members.
As you say people invested follow a Club from gorund up, thats football DNA.
See Johnny coming through Jnrs and ends up playing 1st grade.
What AL/APL lacks is from the ground up, its like Maccas/KFC instead of the local cafe/burger/chicken shop - which tastes better and you get to know the owners.

SWamP good post as well.

The bulk of football support in this country is from NPL/Association roots, thats where the AL/APL can't get a grip of, the new supporters are like the weather, be there one day not the next.
They hardly identify P/R is footballs DNA might I add !

this is a fairly accurate post there is a lot of people who 'love' football but i'd say the majority 'dont love the A league' 

for too many years the FFA and now FA as well as a number of the AL clubs/owners have tried to survive with a wedge between old 'soccer' fans and 'new football fans'  

2gb radio station, most popular over multiple platforms recently advertised the Big Blue thats on next week over the airwaves, giving some tickets away.
Two fta matches every week for A League Mens and Ten Play will have a thousand matches of the Womens. Its better than its been for football for quite a while.
The code is nearly there, just need a NSD, Expansion, Transfer Fees sorted and a wee pro/rel. There, done.

So   how   many    will   the    APL   get    for   their    opening   round ,  big  blue   at   a   big ,  shiny  brand   new    stadium ?   Surely    a   sell   out  ,  right ?