Western United Thread


Western United Thread

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someguyjc
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Monoethnic Social Club - 27 Apr 2022 3:25 PM
someguyjc - 27 Apr 2022 12:33 PM
Minor correction JC,, if Im not mistaken our bid was 2 mill more than WU's..... Pelligra took his money and bought Adelaide United instead.......  agree with the rest :)


You might be right, but I vaguely remember SM was initially at 15m and WU were at 17m and SM said no worries we'll match it. Or something along those lines. Either way, In VIC the money wasn't the deciding factor. The deciding factor was who is the best option that doesn't have south in their name. In hindsight, SM dodged a bit of a short term bullet as a result. Last two years haven't exactly been great for football in this country.
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someguyjc - 27 Apr 2022 3:50 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 27 Apr 2022 3:25 PM

You might be right, but I vaguely remember SM was initially at 15m and WU were at 17m and SM said no worries we'll match it. Or something along those lines. Either way, In VIC the money wasn't the deciding factor. The deciding factor was who is the best option that doesn't have south in their name. In hindsight, SM dodged a bit of a short term bullet as a result. Last two years haven't exactly been great for football in this country.

Agree with all points made.

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someguyjc - 27 Apr 2022 3:50 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 27 Apr 2022 3:25 PM

You might be right, but I vaguely remember SM was initially at 15m and WU were at 17m and SM said no worries we'll match it. Or something along those lines. Either way, In VIC the money wasn't the deciding factor. The deciding factor was who is the best option that doesn't have south in their name. In hindsight, SM dodged a bit of a short term bullet as a result. Last two years haven't exactly been great for football in this country.

Your probably right but also right in saying it wasn't the money...., I was pretty bummed at the time but many others around me where really pleased we didn't "buy in" in hindsight we dodged a short AND long term bullet. I'm glad now we didn't sell out ... although we came close.
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someguyjc - 27 Apr 2022 3:50 PM

You might be right, but I vaguely remember SM was initially at 15m and WU were at 17m and SM said no worries we'll match it. Or something along those lines. Either way, In VIC the money wasn't the deciding factor. The deciding factor was who is the best option that doesn't have south in their name. In hindsight, SM dodged a bit of a short term bullet as a result. Last two years haven't exactly been great for football in this country.

i don’t think that’s true. SM didn't make the final cut but were reinstated at the last minute to help push up the cost. I heard their bid was significantly below WU and Team 11. Money was 100% the deciding factor (Victory and City had some influence as well). WU paid $19 million.

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AyyLeague - 26 Apr 2022 12:07 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 26 Apr 2022 11:54 AM

That's what I thought as I remember a user here saying that WMG were pulling a 'Red Bull Salzburg' on Calder United.
And yet Macarthur have neither that nor a proper NPL Youth team.

I hate to tell you. Calder United was a new NPL club 5 years ago which mark turcarso took the best wpl players for Bundoora and Keilor park to after both clubs weren't included the the wnpl
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Feed_The_Brox - 28 Apr 2022 11:39 AM
someguyjc - 27 Apr 2022 3:50 PM

i don’t think that’s true. SM didn't make the final cut but were reinstated at the last minute to help push up the cost. I heard their bid was significantly below WU and Team 11. Money was 100% the deciding factor (Victory and City had some influence as well). WU paid $19 million.

Like I said, vague memory. However this seems to be the actual details for WU and MAC:
"Western United paid $18 million up front to get into the A-League in 2019-20, while the Bulls were set to pay $12 million for their entrance in 2020-21. However, United were apparently due to receive back $14.5 million of their $18 million fee, in instalments between 2018 and 2022, while the Bulls were to get back $9.75 million. The net amount received by FA was therefore said to be only $3.5 million and $2.25 million, respectively."
Source: (https://www.theroar.com.au/2022/01/05/a-league-licence-fees-are-not-as-lucrative-as-you-might-think/#:~:text=Western%20United%20paid%20%2418%20million,their%20entrance%20in%202020%2D21.)


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LFC. - 27 Apr 2022 11:28 AM
Munrubenmuz - 27 Apr 2022 10:21 AM

in bold ain't that the truth re Franchising......

The numbers Gyfox brings doesn't tell the real picture if you've been around those traps at grass roots and NPL.
Its a fishing pond and half, south of Liverpool right down to Campbeltown - across to Camden back up to Kemps Creek.
Its massive AND as mentioned "growth" galore as more new estates open up.
Have you ever attended Camden Tigers/Rams games Gyfox ? just wondering, especially when CT they were in PL3 couple of years back now in 4.
Ofcourse none of those WSW would have jumped over why would they, thats IF they are still interested in the first place with such a drop off re the RBB etcetc what is the attraction to the Bulls since its start ?
Rip off membership fees
Already alienated the minor active support they got.
Fixtures changed at last moments.
I mean its just not a way to start up generating support from the ground up.
Their NPL side plays @ Edensor Park otherside of Liverpool whereas there is a good syn pitch at Lynwood Park just moments from the Bulls being Rams (Emo is coaching there) home ground or the other 2 syn parks before Lynwood.
Wouldn't you look to keep them close to build up support in your catchment.


Agreed re that region having just 2 NPL Clubs to improve, that needs common goals set and funding, what our game has lacked to this day.
The NSD and future outcomes may trickle down and grow the game where its needed more than Franchise Clubs looking ahead.


I haven't lived in Macarthur for 33 years LFC but I do still have friends there.

The reality of the Macarthur and Southern Districts FA areas is that player numbers are well under the average for the Greater Sydney area.  There are 10,800 players in Macarthur spread over Campbelltown, Camden and Wollondilly and there are 7,500 players in Southern Districts in Fairfield and Liverpool. 

Camden Tigers is not typical of the clubs in Macarthur.  The club is split into 2 sections, the community level where their teams play in the MFA competitions and the representative level where their teams play in the NPL competitions.  It works well and has resulted in the Tigers being the largest club numerically in Macarthur with over 1,000 players total.  Most of the other clubs in the older areas have 400 or so players and only play in the MFA competitions.

The population especially in Camden LGA has been growing quite quickly for some time now and it is interesting to see that there have been 3 new clubs started there over the last 20 years.  Harrington United started in 2002 with 3 teams and now has 1,000 players in its teams,  The club is located in Harrington Park which is now fully developed.  The player numbers is 7.5% of the suburb's population.  Oran Park Rovers was set up in the Oran Park development in 2014 and now has 850 players.  The development is about 80% complete so Rovers should end up a similar size to Harrington United. Three years ago a club was set up in Gregory Hills and is pushing 400 players now.  Gregory Hills is a smaller suburb but if it follows the trend of the other two nearby clubs it should end up with 600+ players.

The Macarthur region has population growth of around 10,000 per year and it is expected to keep doing this until the current projection year of 2041.  So by 2041 there could be another 190,000 population and using say 6% player rate that could mean another 11,400 players and with the trend for larger suburbs and larger clubs that could mean another 8-9 large clubs and the building up of the existing clubs in the old areas due to infill development.

The future for football in Macarthur is quite rosy in the medium and long term but in the short term the proliferation of players will be concentrated around the small sided game, because of the young couples moving into the area, and the quality in the youth area will pick up once the kids move through the system.
 
In Southern Districts, player numbers have been slowly reducing for a while but with land release areas being located on the western side of Liverpool and the fast tracking of development around the new airport they should see growth in the game similar to what has been happening in Camden.

Macarthur FC haven't done well in their initial actions in setting up the club.  As you say prices and the treatment of active support haven't gone down well with their fans.  Hopefully they will reset for next season and with the worst of covid over the club might grow to the levels they initially planned for.

I note that this discussion has ended up in the wrong thread so to move back to Western United how are they going in supporting the growth of the game in western Melbourne and beyond?
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MVFCguy - 28 Apr 2022 11:53 AM
AyyLeague - 26 Apr 2022 12:07 PM

I hate to tell you. Calder United was a new NPL club 5 years ago which mark turcarso took the best wpl players for Bundoora and Keilor park to after both clubs weren't included the the wnpl

Whether its a 5 year old club or a 50 year old club .... its still the cheapest way of having a mandatory women's program rather than having to bother setting one up of your own..,,,, Why not add to the ecosystem rather than rebranding another for the sake of appearing to be legit?
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Feed_The_Brox - 28 Apr 2022 11:39 AM
someguyjc - 27 Apr 2022 3:50 PM

i don’t think that’s true. SM didn't make the final cut but were reinstated at the last minute to help push up the cost. I heard their bid was significantly below WU and Team 11. Money was 100% the deciding factor (Victory and City had some influence as well). WU paid $19 million.

Well if you heard it, it must be true... the whole thread is peppered with insider info.......

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https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/other/naive-western-united-concede-stadium-mistake-as-they-eye-new-home-ground-for-next-season/ar-AAWIs1c?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=ec2a3901efb64d6ba83d51926cca95dc

"The previous management came out and said, ‘You know what, if we had a piece of land right now and were building on it, it would take two years to build’.

"That was correct. But to put it in a bid document and make public statements around it was wrong because ultimately we had a piece of land that was zoned ‘rural'. There’s nothing on it other than cows eating grass. You can’t build anything on it.

"We came out and I’m not blaming anyone...but I think it was a bit naive to come out and say it’s two years to build a stadium.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Fucking dodgy slimy c**ts.  


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ErogenousZone - 29 Apr 2022 1:54 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/other/naive-western-united-concede-stadium-mistake-as-they-eye-new-home-ground-for-next-season/ar-AAWIs1c?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=ec2a3901efb64d6ba83d51926cca95dc

"The previous management came out and said, ‘You know what, if we had a piece of land right now and were building on it, it would take two years to build’.

"That was correct. But to put it in a bid document and make public statements around it was wrong because ultimately we had a piece of land that was zoned ‘rural'. There’s nothing on it other than cows eating grass. You can’t build anything on it.

"We came out and I’m not blaming anyone...but I think it was a bit naive to come out and say it’s two years to build a stadium.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Fucking dodgy slimy c**ts.  


They are so full of shit. They are literally from the development industry. They knew exactly how long things take and what the hurdles and roadblocks are. They knew there was no infrastructure on the plot. Saying they 'were a bit naive' is a complete lie. They knew exactly what they were doing.
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ErogenousZone - 29 Apr 2022 1:54 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/other/naive-western-united-concede-stadium-mistake-as-they-eye-new-home-ground-for-next-season/ar-AAWIs1c?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=ec2a3901efb64d6ba83d51926cca95dc

"The previous management came out and said, ‘You know what, if we had a piece of land right now and were building on it, it would take two years to build’.

"That was correct. But to put it in a bid document and make public statements around it was wrong because ultimately we had a piece of land that was zoned ‘rural'. There’s nothing on it other than cows eating grass. You can’t build anything on it.

"We came out and I’m not blaming anyone...but I think it was a bit naive to come out and say it’s two years to build a stadium.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Fucking dodgy slimy c**ts.  


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Thanks mate, that was gold.
"We’ve got 9,000 members and we are nomads. We’ve played in Tassie, Ballarat, Western Oval, Marvel, AAMI, get kicked out of AAMI, get told to go to South Melbourne by the state government and then kicked out of South Melbourne," he said.

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someguyjc - 29 Apr 2022 2:25 PM
ErogenousZone - 29 Apr 2022 1:54 PM

They are so full of shit. They are literally from the development industry. They knew exactly how long things take and what the hurdles and roadblocks are. They knew there was no infrastructure on the plot. Saying they 'were a bit naive' is a complete lie. They knew exactly what they were doing.

So .... "new management" has now blamed the following for nearly 4 years of being "shovel ready" and no Western Wembley:
1) Whyndham council,
2) "Old management"
3) State Government - claims the planning process, which apparently is now completed, took 6 or 12 months (interesting he can't tell whether it was 6 or 12 hmmmm?) 
4) AAMI Park Trust
5) State Government again for telling them to go to Lakeside (BTW I know English probably isn't poor Jason's first language but you cant be kicked out of an area you were never in to begin with )
6) COVID
7) The all powerful and infinitely influential South Melbourne Hellas FC.

Have I forgotten anyone? If they are the true owners of WMG maybe they should apologise to their 9,000 members. hahahahahahah
9,000!!! HHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH
Edited
3 Years Ago by Monoethnic Social Club
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Monoethnic Social Club - 29 Apr 2022 3:16 PM
someguyjc - 29 Apr 2022 2:25 PM

So .... "new management" has now blamed the following for nearly 4 years of being "shovel ready" and no Western Wembley:

That's the other thing. They have barely been around for 3 years and there is already "new management".
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Booney - 26 Apr 2022 12:20 PM
AyyLeague - 26 Apr 2022 12:07 PM

At least MacArthur has their own home ground.Where they are in SW Sydney should ensure that they can organise a Women's team and a NPL Youth team as it is a huge football area-time will tell if they do that.WU really are like a headless chook -their signing of Diamanti their only real contribution to the A-league.

I missed this bit, but isnt this the same ground that Macarthur are reportedly being charged one dollar for rent, only to then demand some of the highest ticket prices in the league from a low-income fanbase living? Given the complete lack of community engagement let alone investment from them, not to mention how this season has gone for them - from a potential top three finish in late December, to being eliminated - I would hate to be supporting that.
Honestly Macarthur should have its own thread given the bad and dodgy stuff they have done.


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AyyLeague - 2 May 2022 8:42 AM
Booney - 26 Apr 2022 12:20 PM

I missed this bit, but isnt this the same ground that Macarthur are reportedly being charged one dollar for rent, only to then demand some of the highest ticket prices in the league from a low-income fanbase living? Given the complete lack of community engagement let alone investment from them, not to mention how this season has gone for them - from a potential top three finish in late December, to being eliminated - I would hate to be supporting that.
Honestly Macarthur should have its own thread given the bad and dodgy stuff they have done.


Fair point. Everyone is pointing at western but meanwhile MacArthur is as much a failure and they have a stadium 
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Melbcityguy - 2 May 2022 12:08 PM
AyyLeague - 2 May 2022 8:42 AM

Fair point. Everyone is pointing at western but meanwhile MacArthur is as much a failure and they have a stadium 

I always thought WU should have gone with the cowbells as well, it fits in with the pastures where they pretend their future stadium will be.
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I do not support 'Western', far from it. IF the training ground is infact ready for fans late  next season let's just say, would that appease the people because they will be playing out of their correct area?
It would mean it would have taken around four years, not two, given its the training ground, not the main stadium.
At least they play out of that I say.
Edited
3 Years Ago by Stenson
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Stenson - 2 May 2022 12:45 PM
I do not support 'Western', far from it. IF the training ground is infact ready for fans late  next season let's just say, would that appease the people because they will be playing out of their correct area?
It would mean it would have taken around four years, not two, given its the training ground, not the main stadium.
At least they play out of that I say.

Short answer is no. Something is obviously better than nothing, but it's not enough. People want to see the main stadium actually receive planning approval and construction commenced. Last I checked, they only have proper approval for the training ground and not the main stadium. If the main stadium has commenced construction by the time the training ground is ready, that would be great. However if there is still just a training ground by the end of next season, the already low number of fans will drop off further and probably consist of mainly direct locals to the area. Then there is the fact that home games against MV and MC will still need to be played elsewhere to accommodate the large attendances. As long as they are playing home games against their biggest rivals at their rival's home ground, they will be copping deserved criticism.
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Stenson - 2 May 2022 12:45 PM
I do not support 'Western', far from it. IF the training ground is infact ready for fans late  next season let's just say, would that appease the people because they will be playing out of their correct area?
It would mean it would have taken around four years, not two, given its the training ground, not the main stadium.
At least they play out of that I say.

The training ground the council is now funding and building for them is the same as what a dozen other NPL and state league teams in the west already have 300-500 seats and 5k "capacity" no different to Caroline Springs Georgies ground they have been training out of before this year..... Even if/when it is built THEY WILL HAVE DONE NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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WU did outbid everyone with payment of $19mil. That probably propped up the ALeague at that stage three years ago as well.
The precinct was ALWAYS going to be part funded by the Council. 
Expansion should happen in the near future again, as will the NSD next season, which is a step forward for NPL teams, particularly the ex NSL teams.
I notice that once WU start to show progress with the training grounds for their Men's, Women's and Youth teams, certain types have already started raising the bar already as to how and where that club should be placed, and are NEVER HAPPY.
Once WU go to their patch of land, that is their home, at least they will fit 5k in the new facility.
Afl and Nrl play their biggest clutch matches at the main Stadium in the given City of a given State, not necessarily at the homeground of a team anymore, not for years.


Edited
3 Years Ago by Stenson
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Monoethnic Social Club - 2 May 2022 4:36 PM
Stenson - 2 May 2022 12:45 PM

The training ground the council is now funding and building for them is the same as what a dozen other NPL and state league teams in the west already have 300-500 seats and 5k "capacity" no different to Caroline Springs Georgies ground they have been training out of before this year..... Even if/when it is built THEY WILL HAVE DONE NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Correct. 
Expect an Epping or Hume city size "training ground stadium". Funded by the council which means council run and owned. 
Even the training grounds will be community funded and council built and run. 
Therefore available for the community and other clubs to use. 
Nothing exclusive for WU I'd guess. 

So kind of doesn't really fulfil the so called "first" for the A-league, a fully owned and operated stadium for a club. 

As I've said before, the WU group is chasing investment to built the "real" stadium. They don't seem to have the funds to build it now. 
So the club are claiming the council works as progress from their end. Just a mirage at the moment. 
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Butler99 - 2 May 2022 6:20 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 2 May 2022 4:36 PM

Correct. 
Expect an Epping or Hume city size "training ground stadium". Funded by the council which means council run and owned. 
Even the training grounds will be community funded and council built and run. 
Therefore available for the community and other clubs to use. 
Nothing exclusive for WU I'd guess. 

So kind of doesn't really fulfil the so called "first" for the A-league, a fully owned and operated stadium for a club. 

As I've said before, the WU group is chasing investment to built the "real" stadium. They don't seem to have the funds to build it now. 
So the club are claiming the council works as progress from their end. Just a mirage at the moment. 

Furthermore, IF WU win the comp, great kudos to Aloisi and his team, that would mean they have won alot all of a sudden.
Roar don't even play in Brisbane, they are based on the Gold Coast and play out of Moreton Bay.
They need a boutique stadium and they have a bigger problem with nothing on the horizon. 
WU have a training ground as stage one on its way in the near future, where they can plant their rootes.
Edited
3 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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soccerfoo - 2 May 2022 6:48 PM
Butler99 - 2 May 2022 6:20 PM

Furthermore, IF WU win the comp, great kudos to Aloisi and his team, that would mean they have won alot all of a sudden.
Roar don't even play in Brisbane, they play being in Moreton Bay. They need a boutique stadium and they have a bigger problem with nothing on the horizon. 
WU have a training ground as stage one on its way in the near future.

Football in Australia is pretty easy to build success on field. Spend stupid money. 
Although its unsustainable. 
Carlton, Parramatta in the NSL latter years. 
Gold coast previously in the A-league. 

The issue with WU was all the hoopla about building a stadium that was shovel ready.
The backtracking from the owner will do nothing to minimise that damage done. 

If Brisbane moved to Perry park they would have a ground that will match the proposed training ground stadium for WU. 

The bigger issue for all A-league clubs is that most of them have not made stadiums, training grounds, clubhouse, juniors etc a priority. 


Edited
3 Years Ago by Butler99
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Butler99 - 2 May 2022 7:00 PM
soccerfoo - 2 May 2022 6:48 PM

Football in Australia is pretty easy to build success on field. Spend stupid money. 
Although its unsustainable. 
Carlton, Parramatta in the NSL latter years. 
Gold coast previously in the A-league. 

The issue with WU was all the hoopla about building a stadium that was shovel ready.
The backtracking from the owner will do nothing to minimise that damage done. 

If Brisbane moved to Perry park they would have a ground that will match the proposed training ground stadium for WU. 

The bigger issue for all A-league clubs is that most of them have not made stadiums, training grounds, clubhouse, juniors etc a priority. 


Roar cannot play out of Perry Park because the Latte drinking, dog walking locals veto the idea of any sporting teams playing there because of noise.
That was never going to happen. One can only walk they're dogs there only.
WU came in and after that like clockwork, the World got Screwed over with this Covid rubbish. That was a 1-2 year delay, like everything else.
Edited
3 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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soccerfoo - 2 May 2022 7:10 PM
Butler99 - 2 May 2022 7:00 PM

WU came in and after that like clockwork, the World got Screwed over with this Covid rubbish. That was a 1-2 year delay, like everything else.

Don't be fooled by COVID delaying this stadium. 
It was always a mirage fooling the FFA board and nuffies who thought it was a new dawn for Aussie football. 

They never had the money for it. And still don't. 

Their crowds extremely ordinary in the first year too. 
The travelling circus was in since day one. 
Nothing has changed. 
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Butler99 - 2 May 2022 8:04 PM
soccerfoo - 2 May 2022 7:10 PM

Don't be fooled by COVID delaying this stadium. 
It was always a mirage fooling the FFA board and nuffies who thought it was a new dawn for Aussie football. 

They never had the money for it. And still don't. 

Their crowds extremely ordinary in the first year too. 
The travelling circus was in since day one. 
Nothing has changed. 

They wont get a crowd as the 'Travelling Wilburys.' They need to lay down roots. That is the only way and in the area they represent, even on a training ground.
They'll still house 5k. 
Edited
3 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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Stenson - 2 May 2022 5:26 PM
WU did outbid everyone with payment of $19mil. That probably propped up the ALeague at that stage three years ago as well.
The precinct was ALWAYS going to be part funded by the Council. 
Expansion should happen in the near future again, as will the NSD next season, which is a step forward for NPL teams, particularly the ex NSL teams.
I notice that once WU start to show progress with the training grounds for their Men's, Women's and Youth teams, certain types have already started raising the bar already as to how and where that club should be placed, and are NEVER HAPPY.
Once WU go to their patch of land, that is their home, at least they will fit 5k in the new facility.
Afl and Nrl play their biggest clutch matches at the main Stadium in the given City of a given State, not necessarily at the homeground of a team anymore, not for years.


Have you not been able to follow the thread?
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soccerfoo - 2 May 2022 6:48 PM
Butler99 - 2 May 2022 6:20 PM

Furthermore, IF WU win the comp, great kudos to Aloisi and his team, that would mean they have won alot all of a sudden.
Roar don't even play in Brisbane, they are based on the Gold Coast and play out of Moreton Bay.
They need a boutique stadium and they have a bigger problem with nothing on the horizon. 
WU have a training ground as stage one on its way in the near future, where they can plant their rootes.

They can root their plants all they want at anyone of the dozens of other council owned facilities in the west.... why wait for one to be built???? They all look the same, chainlink fences and crappy 300 seat demands..... Sourasis didn't even need to fork out for the revised revit files.....
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soccerfoo - 2 May 2022 7:10 PM
Butler99 - 2 May 2022 7:00 PM

Roar cannot play out of Perry Park because the Latte drinking, dog walking locals veto the idea of any sporting teams playing there because of noise.
That was never going to happen. One can only walk they're dogs there only.
WU came in and after that like clockwork, the World got Screwed over with this Covid rubbish. That was a 1-2 year delay, like everything else.

The original Chinese backed WMG got their license in 2018  and pretty soon had poor little Albanian "Panagiotis" in a hard hat on a Probuiild site.....  he must have been pretty shit on the tools because covid or not,  not even a haul road is up yet.....
Edited
3 Years Ago by Monoethnic Social Club
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