Official naming for negative types, Killjoys on the forum, 'Special breeds.'

Agreed - this is the best to occur in 17yrs no matter what the outcome is regards to set up - as long as we finally have a Pro NSD is what the game needs period and for the youth development.
I wish all the Clubs putting their hat the ring all the best of luck.
Cant come soon enough.

Agree with every word, LFC.

Has there been any indication of if/when there will be pro-rel with the NPL? The FA press release seemed vague on the matter.

To my mind there's nothing stopping it from happening, and the AAFC (i.e. the clubs) seems to embrace the idea. There might be a couple years grace to allow the clubs to bed themselves down (it could be a few years of promotion without relegation to increase the size of the comp to 16), but after that why wouldn't they have pro-rel to the state leagues? It gives it a point of difference to the A-League and allows for a natural flow of clubs up and down the rungs of the pyramid, depending on how well they manage their resourcex.

Pro-rel with the A-League is obviously another kettle of fish. Apart from the commercial issues there is of course the summer season problem, which effectively prevents it from happening while that is still in place. But that's also becoming increasingly untenable with the issues surrounding playing (and watching) in extreme heat.

The big day of reckoning for the A-League looks like it will be when the P+ contract runs out (at the end of season 25/26). Unless things dramatically improve, I can't see Paramount extending it, or another company throwing big money at a new deal. Most likely scenario is that the APL gives the rights away to someone like Optus for chickenfeed, just for the exposure to its PL subscribers (and perhaps one game a week on SBS). But that means the broadcast contract gravy train will come to an end, and clubs will have to fund operations out of their own revenue streams, which would mean scaling back costs (i.e. more Macedonia Park-style situations, and player wages cut back to the bone). Perversely, however, that could also provide the impetus to switch to winter and open the door to pro-rel with the NSD, since the gap between the two would not be significant.

all good points made df1982.

AAFC wanted P/R with the NPL from the outset.

FA have decided to set the entry bar at this level and cut it off from the NPL.  No different from the ALM

This Forum is in the same la-la land as the day after the World Cup, thinking 'the game' would kick on when the fundamentals haven't changed one iota.

P/R is THE point if difference needed and FA have kicked it down the road again.

Pray for the clubs that do go for this because they're going to need it.

The language the FA uses looks like they want pro/rel too though mate... In their defence, if they do an EOI and there are only 6-8 clubs suitable (to their tough criteria) and they have to squueegee two other clubs in just to make numbers then it makes sense to wait for the comp to "mature"....
I want pro rel from day dot as well but willing to give them the benefit oif the doubt.

If by some miracle of miracles there are 18-20 clubs that AL fiot the bill I think this is what we will have, a  16 club league with pro rel the very next season.

I get their reasoning for not having P&R right from the start. However, I think it would be way more productive to still set a date rather than the vague 'when it's mature'. Tell the clubs that there will absolutely be P&R in season 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever. That would give incentives to clubs at all levels to prepare for that date. Without a proper timeline, I worry things just tend to stay the same.

I agree with you and am hoping that this is a "cart before the horse" scenario...  Cant really set a date when they dont even know how many clubs will make up the first season let alone if there will even be one????

No, but they could definitely make that decision at the start of 2024 when the clubs and league structure has been finalised.

this, thats what needs to be put out from the start.
OK NSD koff for 24 with 8 10 or 16 Clubs, P/R is introduced from the get go OR the following season 25 !
Something needs to be announced.

Have we seen anything officially from the FA about NO P/R to date ?
Don't think so unless I'm blind.

All they have said is "A new national tier of football between the A-League Men competition and the National Premier Leagues, with the opportunity for promotion and relegation to be considered once mature". That's it. 

FA get to make up the 'maturity' date

FA then 'consider' P/R, whatever that means and how long it takes ?

Then another X years before it actually is allowed to happen

Every year, more weasel words.

In the meantime if it falls over because it's just as boring as the ALM, it will be all 'told you so' rather than 'we fucked up by not having P/R'

and the APL will forever be off the P/R hook

Shit dude, you are even more pessimistic than me.... hahahahahahaha

I am hoping they do.... Maybe even earlier... There are so many details yet to iron out. 

how many clubs express interest...

then scrutinise the EOis, 

Select and advise said clubs (and hopefully all of us as well)

once this is done we can see what the state of play is, how many rounds, what finals will look like, what the "spread" is and how the fuck they manage to work out how/if/when they do pro rel... Maybe Im just still buzzing that this is going ahead but so far nothing JJ has said seems to suggest he DOESN'T understand we must have pro/rel to the NPL and state leagues.

man 1997 was a big year for rugby league it was constantly in the news... but if we can get 40k to games back then why not now?

https://twitter.com/CameronAtfield/status/1614397699624779778/photo/1

Ok it's something negative, cool

Yes, exactly. If it takes a couple of years to introduce pro-rel that's fine, particularly if there is a period of "pro without rel" to expand the league size.

Transitioning to full-time professionalism is a tough ask, but to my mind there should be enough willing clubs for at least a 12-team league in the initial season. This is my prediction (based on likelihood rather than personal preference):

Sydney Olympic
Sydney United 58
Marconi
APIA Leichhardt
South Melbourne
Melbourne Knights
Heidelberg United
Preston Lions
Peninsula Power
Gold Coast United
Adelaide City
Wollongong Wolves

Canberra I imagine will be announced as an A-League expansion side soon, along with Auckland (as the rumours have it). A federation-backed Tasmania bid could be possible, although a home ground might be an issue (unless KGV Park is deemed acceptable). I would also like to see newly formed clubs for Geelong and Ipswich, but it looks like it will mainly be existing sides at this point.

Then the most likely candidates for expansion/promotion would be:
Manly United
Rockdale Ilinden
Sutherland Sharks
Blacktown City
Avondale
Bentleigh
Oakleigh
Perth Red Star 
Perth SC
Brisbane City
Lions
Sunshine Coast Wanderers

I think that's a pretty good "bench" although the switch to full-time will be a challenge for any club. It actually highlights the need for a third tier, which would be split north/south (NSW/Qld/ACT/NNSW and Vic/SA/WA/Tas) and be a transitional semi-pro/full-time pro competition. But obviously that's 5-10 years away at best. The priority right now would be making sure the NSD stabilises.

A lot has been made of former NSL sides being out of the top tier for so long or "too" long that they must automatically be broke because of it. It's nonsense. They have spent the time with a lower to nothing wage bill, and they never lost any revenue from being out of the NSL because there wasn't any TV revenue - the money flowed up from the clubs to support that league. In the time they've been out, they've had time to sure up their off field revenue sources. Wollongong Wolves being the perfect example - they're on record saying they didn't have the resources to bid for the HAL at its inception and they have spent their time putting it to good use and building their foundation.

I think the clubs initially intended to go in with as low a cost base as possible, but a couple of factors pushed the NSD to going fully professional. First factor which is a small one is that the players union is pushing for it. I don't think this is a big factor - clubs can just turn around and refuse. But the second factor is that there is such a large number of clubs vying for a spot that it gave the whole group a chance to set the bar higher and create some competetive tension. This is absolutely a good thing. Going from 30+ candidates to 16 at the end of the process is a really strong position to be in.

If there's no pro-rel at the start then this is just common sense. The important thing is that things are heading in the right direction. You don't have pro-rel when you don't have 2 divisions. Step 1 is setting up the second division.

I'm really excited at how things are developing right now. If the bitters hate it, then that gives me more confidence. Losers are always on the wrong side of progress.

GCU Geelong, Ipswich and Penisular fail criteria 2

SU fail criteria 6

which numbered criteria are you even referring to? did you make it up?

https://www.footballaustralia.com.au/sites/ffa/files/2023-02/Invitation%20for%20EOI%20-%20National%20Second%20Tier%20-%20Final.pdf

Is it this group of 6 evaluation criteria contained here? Well, top analytical work m8. SU fail "other"

There is no Geelong club mentioned anywhere, including in the list of 30 interested parties that signed onto AAFC initially. But if we take it as being North Geelong, well, names like Skoko, Spiranovic, Horvat seem fine by me, if "criteria 2" is contribution to NT. If you even are referring to that list.

Really, what is the actual point of you? Do you follow football?

I think going for a semi-pro competition initially (or one where clubs have the option of being full-time or part-time) would have been a more realistic strategy, but I think the primary motivation for the FA to support this project is player development, and they clearly see being fully professional as necessary for that goal. I don't think it's anything more nefarious than that. although the cynic might argue it's a strategy designed to let the comp fail and then proceed with JJ's earlier "Champions League" idea.

Those criteria aren't prerequisites, they're what the bids will be be evaluated on. Johnson has said in interviews that bids from new entities will be considered, the question is whether any will emerge. That said, without some kind of association backing (state-level or regional), or a white knight figure, I struggle to see many new entities coming together in such a short period of time. So Tasmania might be a possibility but others less so.

GCU and Pen Power already have teams in the QLD NPL, and the latter can trace its history back to 1948.

30 doesn't fit into 16 or 10 or whatevever number we end up with. We should be stoked that someone in australian football is racing to the top rather than the bottom for a change

With pro/rel later on, are Welly and the new  Auk team be willing to 'participate' in the NSD if any of them finish at the bottom part of the ladder, or do they get 'special treatment?' Stay tuned for more of the 'Bold and the Exciting!'

Would Perth or Adelaide be willing to as well?

Why would it be different to any other team that gets relegated? They would play in the second division and compete to get promoted back up. If there's an NZ team in the top flight, there's no reason there can't be one in the division below. The same happens with Welsh teams in England.

Frankly I'm more interested in the weird word-smithing of the "History and Culture" section other than strange worries about whether anybody recognises that Ipswich football has been around since the 1880s and that Qld and NSW carried the game for Australia Internationally until about the 2nd World War.

It's this bit: "appreciation of the history and culture of football in Australia and in the Territory".  It suggests to me that the author needs not only a refresher (perhaps) in the history of the game but also a primary school education in Australian political geography.  It could also mean that they are carefully remaining aware of the status of the Ashmore and Cartier Islands, The Australian Antarctic Territory, Cocos Islands, Christmas Island, a few sandbars off the QLD coast and Heard and McDonald Islands (off the top of my head).

I mean, fair effort to them if they expect an EOI from the "Old McDonald Farmers" but I fear that it is just another misconception that arises from the world view of a middle level exec operating from a glass tower in a southern smoke-hole.

But where would a NZ club be relegated to from the NST is the main issue?