You've got to be realistic.

Think about this, just think.

What would happen to the Television ratings if Sydney FC and Melbourne Victory were to get relegated? Do you think Foxtel would pay $40 million per year to televise state league clubs in deserted suburban grounds?

No, of course they wouldn't. The worth of the league would plummet and our TV deal will be back to being worthless like it was pre-2005.


Having more teams doesn't create more football fans, it dilutes the existing ones. They tried promotion and relegation in the old NSL, remember how much of a failure that was? Remember how the average club had no more than a couple of thousand supporters?

The A-League model has proven itself to be an outstanding success. Look at the crowds, look at the commercial money flowing in, look at the quality of the players. Though it hasn't been perfect, it's positives far out weight the negatives. Sometimes it's best to look at the overall picture rather than just nit picking on the flaws.

Promotion and relegation will fuck the game up for the long term and will send us back to the dark old days.

for that to happen they'd have to be shit and losing every week, who would watch that if there's nothing to play for.

However, Imagine if they were fighting to stay up, the ratings would be up in that season.

WSW can be considered as a "promoted" team. People are watching them to see how they go.

P/R is NOT the end of the world.

I think that PR will eventually work.

What probably needs to happen for a fully national A2 league is for the AL to expand to 14/16 teams by allowing new licences and entry via the NPL cup method with clubs meeting FFA criteria and full telecast rights package for the A2 to be picked up by someone.

It might happen when the next deal is done and thus allow some certainty and be open to say direct entry licences and promotion via the NPL.

May need to be a moratorium and regional considerations with teams going up and down, but it should be workable.

So we get 3 months of a team 'fighting to stay up' and then what next year?

What happens if three years in a row MV, WSW and SFC get dumped? Make it MH in Year 1 just for shits and giggles.

And replace them with a team from Darwin, Tasmania, Western Australia and some shit-hole in the middle of the desert in far west NSW.

What happens then?

They were 3rd last in the previous season, 20,000 people average came to watch them.

P + R can work but only if football is the absolute number one sport in australia by miles. one day this may happen but till then its suicide. simple.

Why MUST we have a national 2nd division. Why not make it regional divisions. All this crap talk about A2 and B-League!!!

FFS if you did it like that it wont work. Just keep it small and it will like the old days. Now that we have more money and have grown it will work much better especially considering all teams will have junior teams by then.

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Promotion will work. That's how the A league can grow to 12 then 14 and maybe 16 teams.

Relegation will take longer

Not that much longer

KICK NIX OUT!!!

The chances of SFC, WSW or MV being relegated in an uncapped league would be slim. Clubs that build up success over time have a buffer from relegation in knowing they have the financial clout to avoid it for the most part. This is the only way to run a two div league with pro/rel...otherwise yes, with equalisation there is a good chance one of those teams will go down.

football is the number one sport now

The good thing about having promotion, and no relegation is that you get the good without the bad.

Of course in decades to come, with 30+ teams in the A-League, a time will eventually come to review the policy and some hard decisions will need to be taken.

The second tier will be interesting



It would be interesting. Don't forget thaat under your petrified scenario, those 2 next "nobodies" managed to outplay the relegated big guns to get up.

It doesn't matter where teams are from or how many's in the crowd if the 'product is entertainment' and the money comes from TV

If my team gets relegated...I'd go to the game.

If second tier football is on (NPL) TV.....I'd watch it on tv.

Not hard. Or are you guys so plastic you will abandon ship when your team gets relegated?

Have you even made one post on Melbourne victory, all your posts seem to be about state league teams.

I dont need to. My teams future is secure. Perth on the other hand....

I just question whether u even watch them....what about perth?, we have lasted 16 years and are pretty much guaranteed a spot by the FFA

No, I don't. Got me. I find it so boring playing the same teams. Nine teams. Sorry. You are the hero.

THIS

That's why P/R will sort out the real clubs from the crap ones. When a club becomes a part of its community and when the community becomes a part of the club then the club will always survive, regardless of the circumstances.

The TV money will disappear pretty quickly if three years in a row MV, WSW and SFC get dumped and replaced with team sfrom Darwin, Tasmania, Western Australia and some shit-hole in the middle of the desert in far west NSW.

It'll disappear even quicker when the assembly line of bored billionaires runs out.

How will Sydney FC = rich, no chance of relegation in an uncapped league of two tiers
Same goes with Brisbane with the bakeries
Same with mv and their support
Same with wsw and their support

These teams won't die.

There is no chance a state league club will overtake these teams within 20 years
So why fear relegation for the big clubs ?

Relegation will not work in a salary capped league

My hope is that after 10 years we scrap the salary cap, and all teams lie within their budgets and spend according to profits / losses as they do in Germany.


That is the ideal model for promotion and relegation

And fox sports would jump at the idea of having promotion/relegation playoffs not only at the end of the season but throughout the whole season. It means every game will e important no matter if your first or last. It's more value for entertainment. And a more national footprint across double the clubs and audience. Fox sports would never lose out.

Example adelaide united come last, no one cars they get 7,000 to each game

With relegation in the cards they would fight to survive and their supporters will fight with them guaranteeing sold out matches.

No. I understand you're trying to be witty with that comment, but it's completely wrong.



Without relegation: New TV deal covers salary cap for each team, teams become profitable or (more realistically) cost-neutral = Owners are happy.


With relegation: Owners run the risk of seeing their investment drop out of the spotlight. League runs the risk of losing teams in key markets, which means less $$$ from television, which means salary cap is not fully covered any more, which means even the non-relegated teams start bleeding money = downwards spiral. Owners need to start digging in their pockets again to keep their teams afloat. Assembly line of bored billionaires runs out.

This could be the National Premier League

Canberra - Bruce or Manuka
South Coast - WIN
Gold Coast - Skilled
Sunshine Coast - Stockland
Northern Fury - Dairy Farmers
South Melbourne - Lakeside
Auckland City - Mt Smart
West Adelaide - ??
Geelong - Kardinia
Tassie FC - Bellrieve

Three teams promoted and relegatied
Top team is automatically promoted and teams 2 to 5 play off for promotion
Promotion chances are good so spectator and media interest remains strong
Functions also as a rotation system giving smaller markets a crack at the A league
Strong chance of relegation for semi pro teams giving them incentive to go fully professional
Eventually both tiers will become fully pro and pass on benefits to state divisions and grassroots levels
Football experience exponential growth, year 2035 becomes self aware

I think Promotion/relegation should stay between like for like competitions. In terms of the A-league, I would hope any future promotion/relegation would happen between fully professional clubs (ie. an A2-league). For example, the J-league and the K-league Classic. I don't see the need for an A2-league until we get 14+ professional clubs.

I could see an eastern states league form in the future, on top of the various state NPLs. With clubs in there pushing to get the requirements in terms of stadium, support, etc... to try and gain promotion to the A-league. I don't see any relegation from the A-league to it though.

Be careful, it's a 442 forum. Logic gets you banned and comments romoved.

inb4JoFFA

Why do you need a national second tier. A play off between states is suffice.

I think you're right, I think that's probably where we are heading longer term.

How are they "clubs"?

They don't even have club rooms that fans can get a drink at.

When the club is relegated, the fans will stop going. The money will dry up. Quality players will leave. Worse results will follow. More fans will stop going. You wanna picture of how this will look: Go to Connor Reserve, Somers St or what once was Bob Jane.