Ban the Roman Catholic Church


Ban the Roman Catholic Church

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robstazzz
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Munrubenmuz - 17 Mar 2019 10:19 PM
robstazzz - 17 Mar 2019 10:07 PM

That's what I don't understand about Aikhme.  At least you have the decency to acknowledge shit things have happened in the past and they can't be excused.  Ol' mate just sits there obliviously and goes 'nope, didn't happen.'



Yeh but I don't think he says no covering up or molesting has happened, what he argues is that not every single case against a priest is true. Just as much as there have been disgusting priests who have done wrong, equally there's been disgusting people who make up lies, so if there is a flaw in someone's story it's okay to question it without being labeled a paedophile synthesizer.
Otherwise if we believe every single person coming out saying they got molested, then we are basically stereotyping every single priest as a child molester. 
As for me personally on the latest George Pell case I honestly find the victims claims hard to believe only based on the evidence he's given, and I don't think I should be criticised on having this opinion, especially with the court matter not fully delt with as of yet considering the appeal. 
It's the same thing with celebrities who have been convicted of rape. I'm sure many have raped woman and even gotten away with it, but this doesn't mean every single claim is true, in fact there are more lies told on ratio on this matter and again it would be wrong to look down on all celebrities as evil rapists because of the actions of the few who have been rightfully convicted. 


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Munrubenmuz - 17 Mar 2019 10:19 PM
robstazzz - 17 Mar 2019 10:07 PM

That's what I don't understand about Aikhme.  At least you have the decency to acknowledge shit things have happened in the past and they can't be excused.  Ol' mate just sits there obliviously and goes 'nope, didn't happen.'



Because Aikhme is either a delusional idiot or a sad troll who has nothing better to do with his life.
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robstazzz - 17 Mar 2019 10:07 PM
I'll agree with you sub007 on the covering up being just as bad as being the abuser. 


That's what I don't understand about Aikhme.  At least you have the decency to acknowledge shit things have happened in the past and they can't be excused.  Ol' mate just sits there obliviously and goes 'nope, didn't happen.'





Member since 2008.


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I'll agree with you sub007 on the covering up being just as bad as being the abuser. 


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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 9:39 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 9:23 PM

"In the book, Milligan pieced together decades of disturbing activities and cover-ups by Pell.

"I wanted people to know what I have known about George Pell," said Milligan on Tuesday.

"We have been waiting for the justice system to run its course. Nothing can undo what has been done but some justice has prevailed." "


https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/explosive-book-back-on-the-shelves-after-george-pell-verdict-20190226-p510bi.html
[/quote]

What's this?

This is no accusation that Pell abused children.

This is only an accusation of a cover up.
[/quote]

Decades of disturbing activity certainly implies he did especially with the follow up quote ; "We have been waiting for the justice system to run its course. Nothing can undo what has been done but some justice has prevailed."


Also covering up abuse is just as bad as committing the abuse imo.

This quote also doesn't do Pell any favours. "Ms Adler said she was proud to have commissioned and published the book, and said Milligan was "a courageous reporter whose integrity, respect for the judicial process and meticulous research contributed to our understanding of the tragedy of institutional child abuse".

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/explosive-book-back-on-the-shelves-after-george-pell-verdict-20190226-p510bi.html

Edited
6 Years Ago by sub007
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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 9:26 PM

mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 9:15 PM

The kid died of a heroin overdose. So did this kid. It is very easy to mix them up.

Actually no, we are talking about the kid referred to as 1 of the victims, not something that was thrown out instantly.

In any case, it doesn't change the fact that the evidence is flakey at best, and Pell could win his appeal.

Edited
6 Years Ago by mouflonrouge
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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 9:23 PM
mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 9:20 PM

"In the book, Milligan pieced together decades of disturbing activities and cover-ups by Pell.

"I wanted people to know what I have known about George Pell," said Milligan on Tuesday.

"We have been waiting for the justice system to run its course. Nothing can undo what has been done but some justice has prevailed." "


https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/explosive-book-back-on-the-shelves-after-george-pell-verdict-20190226-p510bi.html
[/quote]

What's this?

This is no accusation that Pell abused children.

This is only an accusation of a cover up.

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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 9:15 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 9:00 PM

These were not even in court so again, you are throwing around unproven dirt. If there was any proof of this, it would have gotten to court but the accusations turtned out to be false or were withdrawn.

I am talking about one of the Choir Boys who as it turns out admitted to Mum that Pell did not commit any abuse.

The kid died of a heroin overdose. So did this kid. It is very easy to mix them up.
Edited
6 Years Ago by sub007
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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 9:20 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 9:11 PM


She did not claim Pell abused any child.

"In the book, Milligan pieced together decades of disturbing activities and cover-ups by Pell.

"I wanted people to know what I have known about George Pell," said Milligan on Tuesday.

"We have been waiting for the justice system to run its course. Nothing can undo what has been done but some justice has prevailed." "


https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/explosive-book-back-on-the-shelves-after-george-pell-verdict-20190226-p510bi.html

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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 9:11 PM
mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 9:07 PM

Yes it is which is why the book wasn't on sale in Victoria until the trial was over.

No that wasn't the reason.

The reason was because of the suppression order not because Milligan made any accusations against Pell other than being involved in a conspiracy to conflate and cover up through their Melbourne project.

She did not claim Pell abused any child.

Edited
6 Years Ago by mouflonrouge
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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 9:00 PM
mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 8:33 PM

Turns out he did do that but you're being very disingenuous by not including all of the details.

"One of the accusers was drunk and upset, the court heard, and made allegations about abuse by Cardinal Pell, now 76, happening at a pool in country Victoria.

However, the woman’s son himself failed to tell the group of his own alleged abuse, only making a police statement later, and instead “laughed”, the court heard.

“It wasn’t a council of war about what to do … was it?” Mr Richter asked.

The mother replied: “No.”

Later, the sister of an alleged victim told how her brother drunkenly confided in her about alleged abuse by the Cardinal.

“He said it was a bishop when he was in the choir … and he said it was ‘—-ing George Pell’.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/explosive-book-back-on-the-shelves-after-george-pell-verdict-20190226-p510bi.html


These were not even in court so again, you are throwing around unproven dirt. If there was any proof of this, it would have gotten to court but the accusations turtned out to be false or were withdrawn.

I am talking about one of the Choir Boys who as it turns out admitted to Mum that Pell did not commit any abuse.

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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 9:07 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 8:56 PM

No it doesn't! It doesn't show anything of the sort.

The book is about The Melbourne Project, not about Pell abusing children.

Yes it is which is why the book wasn't on sale in Victoria until the trial was over.
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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 9:07 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 8:54 PM

There is no evidence that many members tried to cover anything up. There are allegations that Archbishop Pell tried to protect the Church from any fallout through The Melbourne Project but it wasn't an attempt to cover anything up.




I wasn't referring to this case. I said that it happens and it's an issue the church needs to address.


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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 8:56 PM
mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 8:33 PM

I've been reading reviews of the book. The book certainly shows that Pell has a history of abusing kids and covering it up.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/explosive-book-back-on-the-shelves-after-george-pell-verdict-20190226-p510bi.html

https://books.google.com.au/books/about/Cardinal.html?id=2d2rAQAACAAJ&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y

No it doesn't! It doesn't show anything of the sort.

The book is about The Melbourne Project, not about Pell abusing children.

Edited
6 Years Ago by mouflonrouge
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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 8:54 PM
robstazzz - 17 Mar 2019 8:19 PM

Agree with that and fair enough. It's completely unfair to judge a whole religion over the actions of a few individuals. However, many members of the church have attempted to cover up abuse which is an issue the church needs to address which is what I think Muz was eluding to.

There is no evidence that many members tried to cover anything up. There are allegations that Archbishop Pell tried to protect the Church from any fallout through The Melbourne Project but it wasn't an attempt to cover anything up.



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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 8:33 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 8:10 PM

Did she?

So let's get this straight! Louise Milligan came to the conclusion that Cardinal Pell was guilty. I find it very doubtful Louise Milligan is stupid enough to come to any such conclusions all by herself.

Not even the mainstream media will commit to saying Cardinal Pell is guilty. They only say, "was found guilty" or its reported that but they won't come out and say he is guilty.

No siree, they do have a much higher IQ than that.

Turns out he did do that but you're being very disingenuous by not including all of the details.

"One of the accusers was drunk and upset, the court heard, and made allegations about abuse by Cardinal Pell, now 76, happening at a pool in country Victoria.

However, the woman’s son himself failed to tell the group of his own alleged abuse, only making a police statement later, and instead “laughed”, the court heard.

“It wasn’t a council of war about what to do … was it?” Mr Richter asked.

The mother replied: “No.”

Later, the sister of an alleged victim told how her brother drunkenly confided in her about alleged abuse by the Cardinal.

“He said it was a bishop when he was in the choir … and he said it was ‘—-ing George Pell’.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2018/03/23/cardinal-george-pell-mother-changed-statement/


Edited
6 Years Ago by sub007
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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 8:33 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 8:10 PM

Did she?

So let's get this straight! Louise Milligan came to the conclusion that Cardinal Pell was guilty. I find it very doubtful Louise Milligan is stupid enough to come to any such conclusions all by herself.

Not even the mainstream media will commit to saying Cardinal Pell is guilty. They only say, "was found guilty" or its reported that but they won't come out and say he is guilty.

No siree, they do have a much higher IQ than that.

I've been reading reviews of the book. The book certainly shows that Pell has a history of abusing kids and covering it up.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/explosive-book-back-on-the-shelves-after-george-pell-verdict-20190226-p510bi.html

https://books.google.com.au/books/about/Cardinal.html?id=2d2rAQAACAAJ&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y

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robstazzz - 17 Mar 2019 8:19 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 8:08 PM

No I meant even mainstream media reported that George Pell reportedly molested a kid. I'm just saying it goes both ways. 
Anyways overall there is no worse crime then peadophillea and anyone who is rightfully convicted of this crime, and even those who have got away with it will rot in hell. 
My only issue with people is when these crimes are seen as a Christianity thing, when in fact it is individuals committing these crimes, and even if as an institution if true that the Vatican covers these crimes up, they too don't represent every single Christian denomination, or even those believers inside their church. 
This is why I hate when people swear about God, Jesus, and paint all priests with the same brush. And I'm not accusing you of doing this just people in general. 


Agree with that and fair enough. It's completely unfair to judge a whole religion over the actions of a few individuals. However, many members of the church have attempted to cover up abuse which is an issue the church needs to address which is what I think Muz was eluding to.
Edited
6 Years Ago by sub007
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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 8:10 PM
mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 7:47 PM

I don't have the book so I can't read it but the book came to the conclusion that he was guilty.

Did she?

So let's get this straight! Louise Milligan came to the conclusion that Cardinal Pell was guilty. I find it very doubtful Louise Milligan is stupid enough to come to any such conclusions all by herself.

Not even the mainstream media will commit to saying Cardinal Pell is guilty. They only say, "was found guilty" or its reported that but they won't come out and say he is guilty.

No siree, they do have a much higher IQ than that.

Edited
6 Years Ago by mouflonrouge
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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 8:08 PM
robstazzz - 17 Mar 2019 8:01 PM

It was only reported by one Catholic source which is why I am sceptical. If it was reported by mainstream media, then I would believe it.

Even if the phrase 'reportedly' was used by mainstream media, it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. If it was 100% true, then the word 'reportedly' wouldn't have been true.

It was only picked up by the catholic Source. It was actually reported by The Age first, then SMH and ABC.

And also reported in Louise Milligan's book: The Rise and Fall of Cardinal Pell

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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 8:08 PM
robstazzz - 17 Mar 2019 8:01 PM

It was only reported by one Catholic source which is why I am sceptical. If it was reported by mainstream media, then I would believe it.

Even if the phrase 'reportedly' was used by mainstream media, it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. If it was 100% true, then the word 'reportedly' wouldn't have been true.

No I meant even mainstream media reported that George Pell reportedly molested a kid. I'm just saying it goes both ways. 
Anyways overall there is no worse crime then peadophillea and anyone who is rightfully convicted of this crime, and even those who have got away with it will rot in hell. 
My only issue with people is when these crimes are seen as a Christianity thing, when in fact it is individuals committing these crimes, and even if as an institution if true that the Vatican covers these crimes up, they too don't represent every single Christian denomination, or even those believers inside their church. 
This is why I hate when people swear about God, Jesus, and paint all priests with the same brush. And I'm not accusing you of doing this just people in general. 


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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 7:47 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 7:45 PM

No I didn't. I picked the only alternative sources to the vigilantes.

There are other sources too, but you won't like them either.

And it was reported in The Age, SMH by Louise Milligan. It's also in her book.

So not just the Catholic Source.

It's in the book:

The Rise and Fall of Cardinal George Pell by Louise Milligan.

https://twitter.com/Milliganreports

I don't have the book so I can't read it but the book came to the conclusion that he was guilty.
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robstazzz - 17 Mar 2019 8:01 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 7:42 PM

You know very well every source will use the word ' reportedly' regardless of it being mainstream media or not. 
You asked for a source and mouflonrouge provided you with one. You can't just disregard it because it doesn't tell the story you want told. 
I don't know if Pell will win this case and have the guilty sentence overturned. But if it is overturned in court my questionto you is would you then accept that ruling and consider him innocent, or would you stick to your guns and claim he is guilty?
And don't forget that the case is far from over. There will be an appeal and only then if still found guilty will this be the final say and case closed. 

It was only reported by one Catholic source which is why I am sceptical. If it was reported by mainstream media, then I would believe it.

Even if the phrase 'reportedly' was used by mainstream media, it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. If it was 100% true, then the word 'reportedly' wouldn't have been true.
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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 7:42 PM
mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 7:31 PM

The only sources you provided are from a church website and a canon law lecturer.

"Before his death, the deceased man reportedly told his mother at least twice that he had not been a victim of sexual abuse". 

This hasn't been reported anywhere else to this is nearly certainly complete bullshit. That wasn't reported by any mainstream media organisations. I bet they used the word 'reportedly' to cover their asses.

You know very well every source will use the word ' reportedly' regardless of it being mainstream media or not. 
You asked for a source and mouflonrouge provided you with one. You can't just disregard it because it doesn't tell the story you want told. 
I don't know if Pell will win this case and have the guilty sentence overturned. But if it is overturned in court my questionto you is would you then accept that ruling and consider him innocent, or would you stick to your guns and claim he is guilty?
And don't forget that the case is far from over. There will be an appeal and only then if still found guilty will this be the final say and case closed. 
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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 7:45 PM
mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 7:44 PM

You literally picked a biased source and them claimed that every other souce is biased. lol ok.

No I didn't. I picked the only alternative sources to the vigilantes.

There are other sources too, but you won't like them either.

And it was reported in The Age, SMH by Louise Milligan. It's also in her book.

So not just the Catholic Source.

It's in the book:

The Rise and Fall of Cardinal George Pell by Louise Milligan.

https://twitter.com/Milliganreports

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6 Years Ago by mouflonrouge
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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 7:42 PM
mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 7:37 PM

I wasn't talking about here. I was talking about people I hate.

And I don't want love and prayers from someone who is defending a convicted pedo. 

Yes you do! Everyone needs it including me. Just shoosh because if someone is prepared to pray for you, they are doing a very good thing.

You should remove the hate from your life. It will consume you in the end.

Also desist with making false accusations. It's not good.

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6 Years Ago by mouflonrouge
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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 7:44 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 7:42 PM

Yes that's right. They are the only source not carrying a pitched fork.

Everyone else is so polarized they are not thinking straight. The secular warlords have hijacked this case and want their scalp of a Cardinal at all cost. that is what is going on.

This trial isn't a fair trial and it never was going to be. We will be hearing about it for years to become, because this IS NOT JUSTICE or due process.

You literally picked a biased source and them claimed that every other souce is biased. lol ok.
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sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 7:42 PM
mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 7:31 PM

The only sources you provided are from a church website and a canon law lecturer.

"Before his death, the deceased man reportedly told his mother at least twice that he had not been a victim of sexual abuse". 

This hasn't been reported anywhere else to this is nearly certainly complete bullshit. That wasn't reported by any mainstream media organisations. I bet they used the word 'reportedly' to cover their asses.

Yes that's right. They are the only source not carrying a pitched fork.

Everyone else is so polarized they are not thinking straight. The secular warlords have hijacked this case and want their scalp of a Cardinal at all cost. That is what is going on.

This trial isn't a fair trial and it never was going to be. We will be hearing about it for years to come, because this IS NOT JUSTICE or due process.

And yes, it was reported in 2017 and it is also written in Louise Milligan's book as well.

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6 Years Ago by mouflonrouge
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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 7:37 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 7:22 PM

There are no straw-men here mate.

Just pure love towards you and prayer!

Even if you do continue to make false accusations against us.

I wasn't talking about here. I was talking about people I hate.

And I don't want love and prayers from someone who is defending a convicted pedo. 
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6 Years Ago by sub007
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mouflonrouge - 17 Mar 2019 7:31 PM
sub007 - 17 Mar 2019 7:18 PM

You will not like the source! But it is a source that provides the other side.

https://www.catholic.org/news/national/story.php?id=79557

In addition, it was also reported in The Age in 2017 and also in a book about Pell written by Journalist Louise Milligan.

One more thing. The Vatican has its own legal and judicial system under its own canonical Laws.

Cardinal Pell has to face the accusations of wrong doingf from the Holy Sea as well. But it is likely he will be found innocent. They will only look at the evidence and the evidence alone and there doesn't seem to be any.

https://theconversation.com/the-catholic-church-is-investigating-george-pells-case-what-does-that-mean-113187



The only sources you provided are from a church website and a canon law lecturer.

"Before his death, the deceased man reportedly told his mother at least twice that he had not been a victim of sexual abuse". 

This hasn't been reported anywhere else to this is nearly certainly complete bullshit. That wasn't reported by any mainstream media organisations. I bet they used the word 'reportedly' to cover their asses.
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