National second division format announce! Expressions of interest due within a month


National second division format announce! Expressions of interest due...

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Monoethnic Social Club
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grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 4:33 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jul 2024 4:28 PM

Im curious how the us second teir started? If we imitated their model heavily it would explain some of the decisions. Did they have some licensing standard

USL is a RIVAL franchise league (that happens to have 3 leagues recently with pro/rel partially between them) nothing at all to do with football.. just some crappy US franchise thing.. they are trying to knock off the MLS as the best league in that country....
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grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 4:28 PM
Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 4:23 PM

Whats your prediction regarding the apl?

in the immortal words of Klubba Lang "Pain"
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grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 4:39 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jul 2024 4:34 PM

Thanks mate if i visit melbpurne again lets go to a south melbourne game ;)

You know where to find me. All roads lead to Lakeside.
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Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jul 2024 4:41 PM
grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 4:33 PM

USL is a RIVAL franchise league (that happens to have 3 leagues recently with pro/rel partially between them) nothing at all to do with football.. just some crappy US franchise thing.. they are trying to knock off the MLS as the best league in that country....

Irregardless there is precedent for oz to look at the us as a model and im wondering if the fa wanted a usl and tried to immitate its format (putting aside the downsides of the usl system!)
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grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 4:46 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jul 2024 4:41 PM

Irregardless there is precedent for oz to look at the us as a model and im wondering if the fa wanted a usl and tried to immitate its format (putting aside the downsides of the usl system!)

Thats exaclty what the APL is proposing as pro/rel though. Expand the A leagues to 20 x clubs, split into two division and then have pro/rel between ONLY them..... 

Dont let Rugari lull you into a false sense of "progress" this is an attempt at keeping the tent flaps well and truly shut......... JJ has stated repeatedly that he wants CLUBS to drive ambition.... 
Edited
4 Months Ago by Monoethnic Social Club
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Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 4:23 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jul 2024 4:15 PM

Yes. 
Indeed. 
Eagerly awaiting comment from JJ on this.  
A statement needs to be made. 

I fear, The APL fan boys will have their tails between their legs in the not too distant future. 

I thought your postings were about the NST, APL has nothing to do with what’s being proposed by FA.
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Some sort of a statement. 

https://www.theasiangame.net/johnson-second-division-will-exist-in-australia/

What do we read into this?
Edited
4 Months Ago by Butler99
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grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 4:28 PM
Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 4:23 PM

Whats your prediction regarding the apl?

As I said earlier. 
These next 2 years will fly under APL banner. 
While they still have broadcast deal with P+ 

If things don't improve significantly, then I'd expect FA to take back the league. 

I don't expect things to improve significantly. 
I won't be surprised if 1 or 2 clubs collapse by the end of this tv deal. 


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libelous - 17 Jul 2024 4:59 PM
Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 4:23 PM

I thought your postings were about the NST, APL has nothing to do with what’s being proposed by FA.

It was a reply to MSC who mentioned APL schills. 
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Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jul 2024 4:57 PM
grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 4:46 PM

Thats exaclty what the APL is proposing as pro/rel though. Expand the A leagues to 20 x clubs, split into two division and then have pro/rel between ONLY them..... 


Never seen that proposal , any idea where I can find it ?
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Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:02 PM
Some sort of a statement. 

https://www.theasiangame.net/johnson-second-division-will-exist-in-australia/

What fo we read into this?

The fa want to convince the clubs of the champions league model but are committed to something going ahead. Rediculous if they would prefer a champions league model over dropping liscence fees and deposits and other criteria

Only way i can live with a champions league model is if it was a 1 year bridge. The a league had a bridge season too iirc

Alternatively if you had 2 groups of 6 play each other home and away then home and away rounds between the groups ;)
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Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:02 PM
Some sort of a statement. 

https://www.theasiangame.net/johnson-second-division-will-exist-in-australia/

What fo we read into this?

You’re the conspiracy theorist, what do you read into it?
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Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:05 PM
grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 4:28 PM

As I said earlier. 
These next 2 years will fly under APL banner. 
While they still have broadcast deal with P+ 

If things don't improve significantly, then I'd expect FA to take back the league. 

I don't expect things to improve significantly. 
I won't be surprised if 1 or 2 clubs collapse by the end of this tv deal. 


If the fa take over there is less incentive to have an nst as the fa would have incentives to protect their most valuable assett. If they are already not as committed as we would like, this window is urgent for getting a nst up and running
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numklpkgulftumch - 17 Jul 2024 3:32 PM
Lupi33 - 17 Jul 2024 3:25 PM

The NST clubs have survived 20 years in the wilderness.  Suddenly deciding they are dependant on the APL's fortunes isn't fair.

However if the FA transfer their NST budget to rescuing the Millionaires plaything, that dependancy may be created

They've survived paying semi pro wages and not having to travel interstate.  A player base who have day jobs.
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numklpkgulftumch - 17 Jul 2024 5:06 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jul 2024 4:57 PM

Never seen that proposal , any idea where I can find it ?

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/the-plan-to-embrace-promotion-and-relegation-in-the-a-league-20230516-p5d8qj.html

A-League clubs have been presented with "a plan to facilitate a system of promotion -- and, eventually, relegation -- which would see the best clubs from Football Australia’s proposed national second division slowly introduced to the top tier." Club execs were recently briefed on the blueprint, conceived by the Australian Professional Leagues, which "closely mirrors the way Japan’s J.League grew from one professional division to three over of 21 years." According to sources, the APL told the clubs they were prepared to "admit the strongest teams from the second division into the men’s A-League on an ongoing basis" -- provided those clubs were able to satisfy a set of strict criteria to prove their financial stability. There would be no limit to the number of clubs that could be promoted, but once it reaches a certain number of teams, most likely around 20, the A-League would then split into two leagues -- tentatively called A1-League and A2-League (SYDNEY MORNING HERALD, 4/26).
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Lupi33 - 17 Jul 2024 5:13 PM
numklpkgulftumch - 17 Jul 2024 3:32 PM

They've survived paying semi pro wages and not having to travel interstate.  A player base who have day jobs.

I get what you are saying, but if rumours are true that fa demand a minimum player budget deposit and liscence fee, why not be flexible on that?

Of course if they are being flexible and the clubs cant meet even travel costs without raising junior fees then that is a different story. But in principle if the clubs are willing to play a national comp at their own expense are you opposed?
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Lupi33 - 17 Jul 2024 5:13 PM
numklpkgulftumch - 17 Jul 2024 3:32 PM

They've survived paying semi pro wages and not having to travel interstate.  A player base who have day jobs.

Thats why most of the brave 8 clubs are busy promoting youth players form their own nurseries and looking for talented youngsters from other APL clubs (even poaching from Aleague academies)... First few years will be VERY young squads - who DONT have day jobs.... 
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grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 5:17 PM
Lupi33 - 17 Jul 2024 5:13 PM

I get what you are saying, but if rumours are true that fa demand a minimum player budget deposit and liscence fee, why not be flexible on that?

Of course if they are being flexible and the clubs cant meet even travel costs without raising junior fees then that is a different story. But in principle if the clubs are willing to play a national comp at their own expense are you opposed?

I'm not opposed, I just don't think its realistic.
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libelous - 17 Jul 2024 5:10 PM
Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:02 PM

You’re the conspiracy theorist, what do you read into it?

You seem to have some beef with me. Some unpleasant feelings.
Why is that? 

I'm just stating my opinions. 
Ones from 18 months ago are rather relevant now. 

I'll give it a good read and use my superpowers to dissect it. As you eloquently put it, I'll read between the lines. 
😊
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Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:02 PM
Some sort of a statement. 

https://www.theasiangame.net/johnson-second-division-will-exist-in-australia/

What do we read into this?

He says the Brazilian second tier is state based... I can't seem to find that online. Wiki tells me the top three tiers are national, it's the fourth tier that's state based.

I DON'T want to see another knockout-only comp like the NPL Finals. At least have a group/league stage.

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Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:02 PM
Some sort of a statement. 

https://www.theasiangame.net/johnson-second-division-will-exist-in-australia/

What do we read into this?


The governing body has even gone so far as to register a name for the competition – the ‘Australian Championship’ – and has gone to market for a new television deal with the second division as part of its offering, with Johnson also confirming an announcement regarding that deal is imminent.

LFC.
LFC.
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grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 4:05 PM
I made a reddit thread gauging a league fans opinions of the nst as well as a roar article arguing why the nsl did better at youth development (it is less data heavy than i wanted it to be to make it readable but i backed things with evidence where i could)

While the comments are kind and polite ive been struck by the remarkable bias against non a league clubs. It reminds me of the polite conversations i have had about universal health care with us republicans. People are remarkably reluctant to credit nsl with anything even though it seems fairly obvious that starting the a league with no junior teams, cutting the number of aussies starting from 154 to 42, cutting the nyl from a home and away season and severely reducing the number of youth internationals should have some effect.

On the reddit thread ive been struck by how some dont just want the fa minimum criteria with no flexibility to get it over the line,  but would rather no nst at all even with it being at the clubs expense

 I think ive radically underestimated the level of bias on the a league side of the bitter divide in football and i want to apologize for this blind spot on my behalf!

You’re ok mate and nice to see a honest return thanks !
I get picking your side but blinded as they are there says everything how ignorant they are about whole big picture.



Love Football

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HappyGuus - 17 Jul 2024 5:39 PM
Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:02 PM

He says the Brazilian second tier is state based... I can't seem to find that online. Wiki tells me the top three tiers are national, it's the fourth tier that's state based.

I DON'T want to see another knockout-only comp like the NPL Finals. At least have a group/league stage.

Even then with a skinny time line to home and away
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HappyGuus - 17 Jul 2024 5:39 PM
Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:02 PM

He says the Brazilian second tier is state based... I can't seem to find that online. Wiki tells me the top three tiers are national, it's the fourth tier that's state based.

I DON'T want to see another knockout-only comp like the NPL Finals. At least have a group/league stage.

I suspect that is where we are headed. 
State NPLs 
Champions league format at end of the season. (No A-league teams included)

This could be the system in place until FA take over APL and then integrate both into one. 
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Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jul 2024 5:15 PM
numklpkgulftumch - 17 Jul 2024 5:06 PM

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/the-plan-to-embrace-promotion-and-relegation-in-the-a-league-20230516-p5d8qj.html

A-League clubs have been presented with "a plan to facilitate a system of promotion -- and, eventually, relegation -- which would see the best clubs from Football Australia’s proposed national second division slowly introduced to the top tier." Club execs were recently briefed on the blueprint, conceived by the Australian Professional Leagues, which "closely mirrors the way Japan’s J.League grew from one professional division to three over of 21 years." According to sources, the APL told the clubs they were prepared to "admit the strongest teams from the second division into the men’s A-League on an ongoing basis" -- provided those clubs were able to satisfy a set of strict criteria to prove their financial stability. There would be no limit to the number of clubs that could be promoted, but once it reaches a certain number of teams, most likely around 20, the A-League would then split into two leagues -- tentatively called A1-League and A2-League (SYDNEY MORNING HERALD, 4/26).

Oh , that thing

APL aren't actually proposing it

My take
Someone on their (then) over heavy payroll has done up a powerpoint to try and justify their employment, then fed the story to Rugari via someone else in their media department.
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Monoethnic Social Club - 17 Jul 2024 5:40 PM
Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:02 PM


The governing body has even gone so far as to register a name for the competition – the ‘Australian Championship’ – and has gone to market for a new television deal with the second division as part of its offering, with Johnson also confirming an announcement regarding that deal is imminent.

That sounds pretty positive

But why on earth would a tv deal prefer a cl model over a h and a model
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Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:22 PM
libelous - 17 Jul 2024 5:10 PM

You seem to have some beef with me. Some unpleasant feelings.
Why is that? 

I'm just stating my opinions. 
Ones from 18 months ago are rather relevant now. 

I'll give it a good read and use my superpowers to dissect it. As you eloquently put it, I'll read between the lines. 
😊

I don’t have a ‘beef’ with you personally, obviously our opinion of James Johnson differ and that’s fine. We will have to see what transpires in the next few days.
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From twitter "James Johnson was very bullish when I spoke with him today regarding the National Second Division.But he did concede that the format is back open for debate, despite FA last year declaring it would be a H&A, standalone league.Big FA board meeting tomorrow."
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LFC. - 17 Jul 2024 5:40 PM
grazorblade - 17 Jul 2024 4:05 PM

You’re ok mate and nice to see a honest return thanks !
I get picking your side but blinded as they are there says everything how ignorant they are about whole big picture.


I understand why nsl bitters were bitter, most would be, the bias from the other side is more a surprise

Id watch every nsd and a league game i can coz i love oz football however flawed
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Butler99 - 17 Jul 2024 5:45 PM
HappyGuus - 17 Jul 2024 5:39 PM

I suspect that is where we are headed. 
State NPLs 
Champions league format at end of the season. (No A-league teams included)

This could be the system in place until FA take over APL and then integrate both into one. 

A champions league format is just as pointless as the knockout comp.  Its just for bragging rights, it doesn't achieve anything materially in improving the pathway infrastructure for Australian football.  Once again, a proper second tier would be great, I just don't see it happening in this country any time soon, not at a professional level. Not for several decades.
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